00:00:31:13 - 00:01:02:21
Rev. Will Mebane
And hello, good friends from Falmouth and par as far in the year. I'm Wil Mebane, one of the co-hosts for the Conversation here on Abc-Tv. And I'm delighted that you've made the time to join us for this 22nd episode of The Conversation. As always, I'm joined by my friend, my mentor, my inspiration, Angela, Scott Price and Andrew, good to see you.

00:01:02:22 - 00:01:07:02
Rev. Will Mebane
Haven't seen you in a while because we both been doing vacation stuff. So good to see. Yeah.

00:01:07:04 - 00:01:07:27
Onjalé Scott Price
Good to see you too.

00:01:07:27 - 00:01:41:13
Rev. Will Mebane
And what a show we have for our folks. Today we are going to be examining a topic that is very much in the news. These days, which is what we try to do here on the conversation and doing things that are topical. The topic is, the climate, climate change, climate crisis, climate emergency that we are facing with a particular focus on the role that racism plays in the climate crisis.

00:01:41:13 - 00:02:07:06
Rev. Will Mebane
And so we have, as usual, some folks on the street. And we've asked to respond to a couple of questions. And one of the questions is what role does racism, what role does racism play in the effects or the efforts rather to address the climate crisis? So what role does racism play in efforts to address the climate crisis?

00:02:07:09 - 00:02:27:23
Rev. Will Mebane
We're going to take a minute now or two to listen to what they have to say in response to that question, and then we'll be back with, some very impressive guests to join us in the studio to continue the conversation and responding to that question. So we back just in a moment.

00:02:27:26 - 00:03:04:19
Kristin Meyer-Kaiser
So obviously, climate change impacts every part of our lives and so does racism. There is a huge intersection between the two, driven mostly by historical inequities that exacerbate climate impacts on black and brown communities. I mean, redlining, housing discrimination, the concept of sacrifice zones having black and brown communities co-located with industrial areas, those have led to huge disparities in not just environmental experience, but life outcomes, between races.

00:03:04:22 - 00:03:46:01
Kristin Meyer-Kaiser
Furthermore, there's a wealth gap in the US, and lower income households would be less capable of dealing with the effects of climate change. There's, climate change is exacerbating and leading to stronger and more frequent natural disasters. We're more impacted by mega storms, hurricanes, tornadoes, things like that. And so the ability to rebuild or to move out of an area that is impacted by those types of storms completely depends on a person's financial resources and historical disparities.

00:03:46:01 - 00:04:07:09
Kristin Meyer-Kaiser
And also modern systemic racism have led to disparate outcomes, between white people and black and brown people. So having different resources creates differential impacts of climate change on those communities. There's a lot of intersection between the two of them.

00:04:07:12 - 00:04:29:19
Bette Hecox-Lea
I've actually spent a fair amount of work looking into the connections between racism and the climate crisis. And I've come to learn that they're actually both caused by the same root cause, which is, I guess, the simplest way to put it is treating people and places in nature like resources for our consumption.

00:04:29:21 - 00:05:01:19
Bette Hecox-Lea
And it can be a lot to get into. But overconsumption of our resources leads to climate change and other problems. Poverty, really awful things like slavery. And we're all basically good people, so we have to have some kind of ideology to let us do these things. And that's where racism comes in. And other things too, like imperialism.

00:05:01:22 - 00:05:21:13
Bette Hecox-Lea
To help explain why we should do this. So that's useful for a couple of reasons. And that's if if racism and climate change are both caused by the consumption of resources, that informs the solution. And it also lets us work together at the root cause of the problem.

00:05:21:15 - 00:05:50:25
Rev. Will Mebane
Well, I think our people on the street have gotten us off to a very good start in addressing the question, what role does racism play in efforts to address the climate crisis? And we're now joined by two distinguished individuals who are part of our scientific community here in Woods Hole, to help us continue the conversation, around that topic.

00:05:50:28 - 00:06:14:10
Rev. Will Mebane
And, welcome to both, David and to Rob. And I'm going to start with, with, David, if I can, and ask you to, respond to the question or what you heard our people on the street say, and first, I guess I should offer a little introduction of of of David, I love your title.

00:06:14:10 - 00:06:53:05
Rev. Will Mebane
It's like, as long as all the titles I've ever had in my life all put together in one. Right? So. But he. David Mark Welch is a senior scientist and director of the Josephine Bay Paul Center for Comparative Molecular Biology and Evolution, whatever that is. You can teach me that. And perhaps as we move through the show and, he's also involved with an organization called the Film of Climate Action Network.

00:06:53:07 - 00:07:02:02
Rev. Will Mebane
And, so we're delighted to have you with us. David, what's your reaction to the question? What's your response to the question of what our guest had to say?

00:07:02:02 - 00:07:28:00
David Mark Welch
I mean, it's interesting. It's it's, I guess I think of it as a two part answer. To those, I mean, there's there's two issues. One, the relationship between sort of our long history of racism and the climate crisis and that the climate crisis is sort of one of the most intersectional issues that we have, because it affects everything that we're doing.

00:07:28:00 - 00:07:58:19
David Mark Welch
And it in turn, you know, the root causes of, in my opinion, the root causes of the climate crisis are the same as the root causes of our sort of racial, economic and social inequity. Basically the extraction economy, capitalism, individualism, you know, word greed, right? Same root causes that led to slavery and the indigenous genocide and ongoing institutional racism.

00:07:58:26 - 00:08:26:07
David Mark Welch
And in my opinion, you look at, you know, as the climate crisis intensifies, who is most affected by the extremes, you know, flooding, storms, drought, heat, that is primarily going to be, you know, black indigenous people of color, who has access to the resources and services to lighten that burden. That's primarily upper middle class white people, right?

00:08:26:07 - 00:09:05:14
David Mark Welch
So there there are racism issues right there in the way the climate crisis affects everyone. And then, you know, that was my thoughts on based on what the are interviews. When I first read the question, I had another thought, which is to what degree are the climate solutions that we're pursuing now themselves somewhat racist? Which I know that there has been, you know, a lot, a lot written about and, and a concern that much of the work addressing the climate crisis is on in my, you know, in my opinion, the symptoms and not the root causes.

00:09:05:14 - 00:09:27:28
David Mark Welch
We're not really looking at the root causes of of the problems of the extraction economy. You were saying, how can we find technological fixes that will, you know, allow us to maintain the sociological status quo? Right. How can we how can we green the economy to reduce the amount of carbon that we're emitting without having to make any kind of personal sacrifices?

00:09:28:00 - 00:09:52:01
David Mark Welch
But there will be sacrifices made as we do, that we're going to be extracting new resources. Where is that extraction going to come from? Historically, it comes from areas where marginalized people are, you know, are we increasing sacrifice zones and things like that? I look at the decisions that we are making, and this is a broad generalization.

00:09:52:02 - 00:10:22:07
David Mark Welch
I'm ignoring some other things. But to make my point, you know, we are investing in, charging stations for electric vehicles. We're not investing in public transportation. So who are we helping when the average cost of an EV is $60,000 or more? You know, we're talking about batteries for our homes to protect us against, you know, you know, power outages and things like that.

00:10:22:14 - 00:10:47:00
David Mark Welch
We're not talking about microgrids for the community. We're talking about land going to private solar development. We're not talking about community solar. So I think that issues like that also, you know, there I think there's a there's a racial justice and economic, social justice component to, to how we approach the solutions of climate change.

00:10:47:03 - 00:11:12:16
Rev. Will Mebane
Well, you've already educated me and caused me to rethink some, some things, because I have this I have this idea of maybe putting some, EV charging stations, around the campus here at, Saint Francis. Right. Thinking that. Oh, that would be a great way to, make a statement about how, conscious we are about the environment and wanting to care for creation.

00:11:12:16 - 00:11:14:22
Rev. Will Mebane
But I'm going to rethink that.

00:11:14:25 - 00:11:25:29
David Mark Welch
Well, don't don't not don't not do it. But maybe we should also be like, you know, improving the the service of the wish trolley or the, you know, Cape Cod, trolley service or so.

00:11:26:00 - 00:11:30:02
Rev. Will Mebane
Right, right, right. Well, thank you. And actually, I mean.

00:11:30:02 - 00:11:37:12
David Mark Welch
I have I do have a plug in hybrid, so I don't, you know, please go ahead and put another I would like joyous charging station at Saint Barnabas that would be very handy.

00:11:37:14 - 00:11:50:13
Rev. Will Mebane
Okay. All right. And I guess I should have said as I was, distracted by your very, long title, that you're with the Marine Biological Laboratory, right?

00:11:50:13 - 00:11:54:09
David Mark Welch
Yes. The De Paul Center is within the Marine Biological Laboratory.

00:11:54:11 - 00:11:55:28
Rob Thieler
Right. All.

00:11:56:00 - 00:12:21:11
Rev. Will Mebane
So, Rob, let's bring you into the conversation as well. And, I love how Davis kind of started, with a particularly focus on the efforts that are underway to address the the climate crisis, I guess. I guess I should have said from the beginning or just I hopefully get an agreement that there's no disagreement among any of us, that we do have a climate crisis.

00:12:21:11 - 00:12:24:14
Rev. Will Mebane
Yes, we have a climate crisis.

00:12:24:17 - 00:12:26:04
Onjalé Scott Price
No disagreement here.

00:12:26:06 - 00:13:10:00
Rev. Will Mebane
Right? So, we can dispense with trying to, articulate the reasons why we think, well, we know that there's a what's been described as climate change and, you know, climate emergency and climate crisis. And we know that there is a crisis here. So, Rob, you are also part of the scientific community here in, in Falmouth, serving as center director at the Woods Hole Coastal and Marine Science Center and also serving as the diversity and inclusion agent, diversity and inclusion change agent, for the US Geological Survey.

00:13:10:00 - 00:13:13:24
Rev. Will Mebane
So give us your initial thoughts.

00:13:13:27 - 00:13:35:13
Rob Thieler
Well, I think David captured, you know, so many of the, the macro issues, really, really well. And it's, you know, what he described as, you know, what we have chosen to focus on, you know, are we looking back or are we stepping back far enough? You know, the issue with, you know, chargers versus,

00:13:35:16 - 00:14:13:25
Rob Thieler
Well, the one I immediately remember is, you know, private solar versus community solar and things like that. You know, it's very clear that, you know, systemic racism has played a significant role, as we saw in the lead up, segment. And, you know, in access and the disproportionate impacts, and the representation, you know, you have here two scientists who have worked together a lot, and, and a third member of our community that is addressing this in the Stem field is energy.

00:14:13:28 - 00:14:25:17
Rob Thieler
And, you know, increasing representation. And, you know, dealing with the problem and understanding it. You know, as,

00:14:25:19 - 00:14:50:09
Rob Thieler
As scientific institutions, we, you know, we don't have historically good representation across lived experiences and racial and ethnic backgrounds and things like that. And it's a fundamental problem. And, you know, one of your other programs talked about diversity in Stem. You know, that is a really major problem because you don't have the people at the table doing the research, setting the research agenda, communicating the results.

00:14:50:12 - 00:15:19:02
Rob Thieler
That are, you know, products of, those impacts that have unique perspectives on those impacts. And it, it sometimes guides decisions to, you know, the kinds of resource extraction issues, the impact issues, you know, all the things that David mentioned, you know, and, you know, as a member of the executive branch of the federal government, you know, we recognize this through our title six, Civil Rights Act responsibility.

00:15:19:04 - 00:15:28:29
Rob Thieler
You know, that's where we, you know, that is how we enter this, this part of the country.

00:15:29:02 - 00:15:35:27
Rev. Will Mebane
So what is title six? Go to tell us a little bit more about what that is and the requirements under which you operate.

00:15:35:29 - 00:16:07:19
Rob Thieler
Title six, which is part of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which is, you know, the government's point of entry into, you know, the legal requirements of, you know, being sure that we combat racism, and by extension, environmental justice issues that also now relate to the climate crisis. And this is a fundamental part of now several of the executive orders that, President Biden signed that are now part of the Biden-Harris administration's commitment to,

00:16:07:21 - 00:16:15:28
Rob Thieler
Combating both systemic racism and its impacts and also, addressing the climate crisis.

00:16:16:01 - 00:16:41:24
Rev. Will Mebane
Well, thank you for that. So I know Andrew has, Rob mentioned you are also part of the, scientific community in Woods Hole there and have been working to try to help diversify, at all levels, I guess, scientists that, work in, in those fields, you have you have a follow up question. Maybe.

00:16:41:26 - 00:16:55:12
Onjalé Scott Price
So I did, but I first wanted to just circle back to what David said. You mentioned sacrifice zones, and I'm not sure that our audience will know what that is. I'm somewhat familiar with it, but could you talk a little bit about sacrifice zone and what those are?

00:16:55:15 - 00:17:28:02
David Mark Welch
So I'm not by no means an expert, so but what I at least what I meant by the term is, you know, areas of our country that are, you know, so polluted and so, prone to high rates of cancer and, asthma and other sorts of problems that in a sense, we've, we've given up as a country and, and just said, this is the cost of doing business that we are going to have to have communities like this, in order for the rest of us to have all the things that we want.

00:17:28:02 - 00:17:51:06
David Mark Welch
And it's not my term. Somebody else came up with this concept of of the sacrifice zone. And as we go away from, you know, a petroleum based economy, there is still going to be extraction in order to meet, you know, to meet all of our needs. Those sacrifice zones aren't going to go away without major socio economic change, which I guess is a second part of our conversation.

00:17:51:09 - 00:18:10:14
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you for just clarifying that. My understanding of them is there is pretty much what you said, and know adding on to that, that's why we need to have different representation at the table as we work through these challenges. Because the sacrifice zones, are generally in poor neighborhoods, black and brown neighborhoods, or that's what those neighborhoods become.

00:18:10:14 - 00:18:29:03
Onjalé Scott Price
They become sacrifice zones, by nature of not having the resources put into them, you know, not having the care. And then if we don't have people who are either from those communities or ones who want to represent those communities at the table, we're making these decisions, those sacrifice zones, it's going to be easy to say, well, they're already a sacrifice.

00:18:29:03 - 00:18:49:11
Onjalé Scott Price
Sounds like just make them bigger instead of how do we, reduce harm in the sacrifice zones as we move forward with our plan? And I think you made a really interesting point about the individualism. That has brought us to where we are. And similar to Reverend Will, I've thought like, yeah, the town should definitely put in more, you know, EV charging stations.

00:18:49:11 - 00:19:04:05
Onjalé Scott Price
And again, there's nothing wrong with those people do have hybrid electric vehicles, but really is we're treating the symptoms and not the root causes. And I thought that was a really fantastic point that I had not even considered myself. So yeah.

00:19:04:07 - 00:19:05:27
David Mark Welch
I can get more radical if you want that.

00:19:05:27 - 00:19:16:19
Onjalé Scott Price
That's I love I love radical. I just said recently when talking about affordable housing. So that's my new term. We got to do something radical and we have to do something radical for the climate crisis as well.

00:19:16:21 - 00:19:33:23
Rev. Will Mebane
And I was recalling an article I saw that was published, I think, by, Sierra, the magazine of the Sierra Club. And the title, was Racism is Killing the Planet.

00:19:33:25 - 00:19:34:13
David Mark Welch
Yeah.

00:19:34:15 - 00:19:56:26
Rev. Will Mebane
The ideology of, of white supremacy leads the way toward disposable people and a disposable natural world. And one of the quotes in that, article is you can't have climate change without sacrifice zones, and you can't have sacrifice zones without disposable people.

00:19:57:19 - 00:20:02:08
Rev. Will Mebane
And you can't have disposable people without racism.

00:20:03:10 - 00:20:03:25
Onjalé Scott Price
That's deep.

00:20:04:00 - 00:20:05:24
David Mark Welch
That ties it all together right there.

00:20:05:27 - 00:20:41:04
Rev. Will Mebane
Right? Right, right. That's an excellent, article that I, keep bookmarked. For easy access. Now, our folks on the street, Kirsten and Betty, really also spoke to this issue. And I especially appreciated Kirsten talking about the historical, inequities, that just exist in our society. Right. We know again, so maybe we can all agree that racism exists and it exists in every corner of our society.

00:20:41:07 - 00:21:27:13
Rev. Will Mebane
And so why should there be any question that the racism would be prevalent in both contributing to the climate crisis and efforts to, mediate, mitigate rather the the crisis? And she talked a lot. Kirsten especially talked about the wealth gap and I can't remember who was David or Rob that that spoke to this is that this wealth gap, this inequity that we have in, in the, in society, in our country, is a continuing contributing factor to, the perpetuation of systemic racism.

00:21:27:13 - 00:21:37:09
Rev. Will Mebane
I wonder if either of you has a thought or response to that.

00:21:37:12 - 00:21:56:24
David Mark Welch
Yes. It's something that, you know, certainly. You know, I think it's come up in conversations that Rob and I and have had, you know, around the it's old diversity initiative and others and I'm sure Angie's been involved in this as well. It maintains the status quo, right?

00:21:56:26 - 00:22:15:27
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah. I guess that's what I'm trying to get at is so so how does it manifest itself? So if we know that though, so we know there's disparity. There's a wealth gap. Wealth gap. How does that how do we see that. Where does that show. How does that manifest in in our everyday lives. Some of our viewers can relate to, you know, go ahead.

00:22:16:00 - 00:22:56:08
Onjalé Scott Price
So we know that sea level rise is going to affect coastal communities. But in wealthy places like here and found that people just build seawalls so that their properties aren't affected, they can still enjoy their beach and whatever. Whereas in communities where people don't have the resources and the financial ability to build seawalls or even or even potentially to move their if they have to deal with whatever comes, whereas again, people here or in other, you know, wealthy communities could build seawalls or they could move, and there's also thinking about, you know, natural disasters is how quickly and how much can you recover from a natural disaster.

00:22:56:11 - 00:23:31:07
Onjalé Scott Price
Often I remember Hurricane Katrina. I was in, Florida at the time, and I remember people saying other students saying, well, why didn't people just leave? And I remember thinking like, yeah, why didn't people just leave? And realizing some people can't leave, some people can't afford to leave, some people don't have the mobility to leave. And those are not generally people who are in wealthy communities or people who have, those resources and so people are going to be subject to what harm comes from climate change because they they don't have anywhere to go or they don't have the means to go anywhere else.

00:23:31:09 - 00:23:54:12
Rob Thieler
That's a really great point. You know, I'm reminded of a number of, studies and media coverage of those studies, that talked about, you know, low lying areas in South Florida, in, in Miami and in the suburbs. Some of the highest ground is, in a relative term, minimum, that is least vulnerable to sea level rise.

00:23:54:14 - 00:24:20:05
Rob Thieler
And it's associated impacts, is currently, occupied by people in communities of color that have been there for a very long time, but they're being priced out and moved out by, wealthier interests that are coming in because it's the high ground, and it's available. So, you know, a community that is vulnerable to being bought out, moved out and a lot of places not to use point, you know?

00:24:20:07 - 00:24:47:23
Rob Thieler
But those residents, may not have a place to go. You know, their employment is based, geographically. You know, for example, and, you know, for better or for worse, I as a scientist, I tend to adopt the. Okay, what is the scientific process for for looking at this. And it's been, you know, heartening to see a lot of new things, coming online that allow us to at least quantify it.

00:24:47:24 - 00:25:19:27
Rob Thieler
You know, a lot of this existed in the number of state studies, done, you know, back when, the original, environmental justice, executive order was issued by President Clinton in 1994. You know, it was delegated to the states and EPA had, most of the federal role in this. The Biden-Harris administration has made this explicitly in all of government responsibility to identify, quantify and, begin to address, areas where we see environmental justice.

00:25:19:27 - 00:25:39:13
Rob Thieler
And there's a new, online screening tool that takes a number of metrics about socioeconomic wealth. And, you know, a number of things that David mentioned, in his opening, and puts them on a map so that you can see where are these communities and what is the nature of that injustice? Is it poor air quality? Is it flooding or sea level rise hazards?

00:25:39:15 - 00:26:06:29
Rob Thieler
And what resources do they need? And how might the federal government, at least in its role, begin to address this and how might other groups, you know, faith groups, NGOs, you know, everybody? And it's it's basically it's shining a broader and more consistent light on what could, you know, or what has long existed in small pockets that are, you know, easier to to, you know, not pay attention to or say, well, this is just one little thing.

00:26:07:02 - 00:26:42:11
Rob Thieler
But when you roll it all up in the picture, I think you, you get a more holistic view and then you can start to, you know, address those things with, where needed. You know, radical solutions to use, use and use term because we're, we're going to have to really push, you know, the edges of the envelope and look out of the box, to really get at this at the kind of scale and with the kind of equity that, you know, our certainly, priorities, that have been set by, you know, this administration and,

00:26:42:14 - 00:26:47:19
Rob Thieler
The various organizations, that are paying attention to this issue.

00:26:47:22 - 00:27:09:12
David Mark Welch
I think that's a great point because, you know, the the disparity between the investments that are made in different kinds of communities, you know, and you mentioned sort of, you know, wealthy seaside communities, they don't ever seem to have much trouble rebuilding after a storm. Whereas there are parts of Louisiana that are still rebuilding after hurricane, you know, multiple hurricanes ago.

00:27:09:15 - 00:27:37:26
David Mark Welch
And I mean, one thing about climate change is this just going to put an incredible amount of stress on all aspects of our infrastructure and all of the decades of underspending on infrastructure in poorer regions is going to come back to haunt us. And you look at things like Water and Jackson. Right? I mean, that's not directly climate change, but it's part of the overall stress that's been put on our system.

00:27:37:29 - 00:27:58:18
David Mark Welch
And it's places like Jackson, Mississippi that are having the, you know, collapse of their water system. It's not, you know, I don't know of higher income places in Mississippi, but it's not it's not a, you know, it's the place where there are more black, indigenous and people of color. It's it's not, not the wealthier areas that are having that problem.

00:27:58:21 - 00:28:04:25
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah. Jackson is I think that 80% black. So it's not happening in the communities that are probably.

00:28:04:27 - 00:28:06:19
David Mark Welch
Yeah. Yeah.

00:28:06:22 - 00:28:47:06
Rev. Will Mebane
You know, this whole discussion now is reminding me and getting my blood to boil a little bit. When I think about the insidiousness of racism that it just permeates everything. You know, I, you know, before we scheduled this, this conversation, I've had some exposure, as I mentioned, the article I read about racism is killing the planet, but I never really thought about too much about the role of racism in, causing climate change or, this affect or mitigating, the crisis.

00:28:47:09 - 00:29:15:26
Rev. Will Mebane
And, you know, Rob, when you were talking about what's happening at Miami, where the, I guess it's a new a new form of gentrification, right? That, so you got black and brown people living in on the higher ground, and so they will be safer. Theoretically, from the, drastic impacts of natural disasters, from water and wind.

00:29:15:29 - 00:29:59:03
Rev. Will Mebane
But now being displaced by white folk, who are more threatened. And I just, you know, I never heard that. Never thought about that. And again, it just reminds me of the insidiousness of, of racism in our, in our society. One of the things Betty said in her comment was that, you know, treating people and, and the climate like, I think she said resources, is one of the causes that, as disposable, just, you know, people are sort of like the quote from the article, people or certain people are just disposable.

00:29:59:05 - 00:30:00:16
Rev. Will Mebane
And.

00:30:00:19 - 00:30:29:16
Rev. Will Mebane
And but then she followed that by saying, that we're basically good people. Right? But that we get, these are my words, not hers. We get indoctrinated by, racism. People who tune in on this show regularly, her head have heard me say, nauseum, you know, racism is taught is not something that anyone is born with an understanding of.

00:30:29:19 - 00:30:50:14
Rev. Will Mebane
And then the system of which we are part of this. So sort of an imperial system, this capitalist system, just perpetuates that, that racism. So, any thoughts from either one of you about that?

00:30:50:16 - 00:30:56:10
Rob Thieler
I think she's setting the tone here, so I'll, we'll let him. We,

00:30:56:12 - 00:31:26:07
Onjalé Scott Price
I, I think she's absolutely right. And I think David kind of hit on that a little bit, a little bit earlier. As long as we continue to look at everything as a resource to be consumed, we're just going to continue down this path. And, Yeah. So we have to make a radical decision to not treat people and the planet as a resource to be consumed, rather a resource to be enjoyed and to be shared and to be loved and, you know, all those nice things.

00:31:26:09 - 00:31:46:16
Onjalé Scott Price
But that's going to take a radical mindset shift of us as people and then changing our institutions. So I'm going to go back to the EV charging thing, because that was just is brilliant point. Yes, we do need those because those are good. And might, you know, it might incentivize people to get them. But that is not actually dealing with the root of the problem.

00:31:46:16 - 00:32:05:19
Onjalé Scott Price
And that is very individualized. That is very imperialistic thinking. Instead of how can we move more people? How can we make it more accessible? How can make it more affordable? So, I mean, I have to admit, even that's not the way that I was thinking about it. And I'm supposed to be working towards these issues, right? So so I still have a lot to learn and a lot of thinking to change.

00:32:05:20 - 00:32:10:09
Onjalé Scott Price
So I think everybody else does too.

00:32:10:11 - 00:32:56:25
David Mark Welch
I mean, you know, the climate changes are the immediate crisis. It's upon us because because it's being thrust upon us and it can have catastrophic effects and it likely will have catastrophic effects. But it's it's part of this broader Anthropocene intervention that we are making in the natural world. Right. And if we suddenly switch from extracting petroleum to extracting lithium, it's not going to change that much in terms of the, you know, damage that we're having that we're doing to the planet and that we're doing to each other, and the need to maintain, the same sort of economic system that's based on, you know, as Reverend Will said, you know, and I can't

00:32:56:25 - 00:33:05:18
David Mark Welch
remember your exact words, but from the article that you read about racism, it's killing the planet that there must be people at the bottom. Yeah. In order to make this system work.

00:33:05:20 - 00:33:07:00
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah. Disposable people.

00:33:07:00 - 00:33:07:10
David Mark Welch
Yeah.

00:33:07:16 - 00:33:35:01
Rev. Will Mebane
Right. Right. So maybe we can, I'm going to get to the second question here in a moment. But I want to bring this home a little bit. I want to bring it closer to home. And, David, I know you're involved with the, Falmouth, Climate Action Network. I think I have that right. And, so tell us a little bit about the sorts of things that you and those involved in the organization with you.

00:33:35:01 - 00:33:40:25
Rev. Will Mebane
What sort of things are you all trying to get folks to do here in Falmouth?

00:33:40:28 - 00:34:03:13
David Mark Welch
So the, you know, Falmouth Climate Action Network is, it's just a volunteer group of, you know, concerned people who are trying to figure out what they can. They, as individuals, can, can do about the climate crisis on a local level. It's part of a broader the Climate Action Network concept extends from communities all the way up to an international level.

00:34:03:13 - 00:34:26:29
David Mark Welch
I'm not sure how effectively it extends up that way, but there are multiple towns in on Cape Cod that have climate action networks. And then there's a Cape Cod Climate Action Network, and it's associated with the Massachusetts Climate Net Climate Action Network, which is especially with the US Climate Action Network. So local, local grassroots organizations that are sort of tied together through this structure.

00:34:27:01 - 00:35:03:27
David Mark Welch
And we've been, you know, we're trying to, you know, certainly educate the community through webinars and seminars. Book clubs make people more aware of the climate crisis. But then trying to influence the town to take it seriously. Right, because they're everybody in town. Leadership recognizes that there is a climate crisis. But recognizing that that means that immediate action is necessary, even though there are all sorts of other pressing needs on on the town and town officials and other things that we have to to deal with.

00:35:03:27 - 00:35:42:22
David Mark Welch
But, you know, so we've been involved in, you know, the various solar farm proposals that have come up to the town and trying to weigh the cost and benefits between clearing trees to put up solar. That's a very deep question. That's practically a whole nother program. But how how you find the balance there. You know, we've been pushing for the town to hire, sustainability director to focus directly on the climate crisis so that various aspects of what the town is doing can be coordinated, through sort of a single person who's writ is to focus on climate change.

00:35:42:29 - 00:36:10:16
David Mark Welch
And it's hard to make those kinds of changes in a town because there are so many other district, so many other issues that seem to be so pressing. What are we going to do about the beaches? What are we going to do about the schools? What are we going to do about the potholes kind of thing? And part of what Sorkin was trying to say is the, you know, the town of Falmouth declared a climate emergency a few years ago in a town meeting.

00:36:10:19 - 00:36:33:09
David Mark Welch
And the word emergency has connotations. The word emergency doesn't mean we wait until 2030 to put something into effect, because we need to be somewhere by 2040. It means that we start doing things now. So, I guess a long winded way of saying our main goal is trying to convince the town, the community that we need to start doing things now.

00:36:33:11 - 00:36:35:04
David Mark Welch
To address the climate change.

00:36:35:06 - 00:36:40:14
Onjalé Scott Price
And David, if I remember your name is one of the one, one of the petitioners for the article A town meeting.

00:36:40:17 - 00:36:46:24
David Mark Welch
Yes. That's right. Yeah, yeah. So along with the other sort of, the, the, the board of the Falmouth Climate Action Network.

00:36:46:27 - 00:37:06:28
Onjalé Scott Price
Right. I remember, I remember not I didn't see Falcon's name on it, but I knew everybody was a member of Falcon. And so that's something that we've talked we talked about our strategic planning session last Saturday was we all agreed that, it was a priority. So this our next strategic priority session. We're going to be looking at the budget and how to make that and some other things fit into the budget.

00:37:07:01 - 00:37:28:18
Onjalé Scott Price
So thank you guys for, you know, pushing us to do that. And it is really important. And we do think it's important. And like you said, there are competing priorities. But in a town that has 70 miles of coastline, 90, it really depends on how you calculate, because I've definitely heard both. But at least 70 miles of coastline, you know, looking at coastal resiliency and sustainability is going to hit us much faster than other places.

00:37:28:18 - 00:37:37:24
Onjalé Scott Price
Not that that minimizes a priority of climate change anywhere else. But, you know, really puts into focus how much time and energy and money you need to be focusing on it now.

00:37:37:27 - 00:38:10:02
Rob Thieler
Yeah, I think that's part of, you know, packaging. How we think about this is, you know, building it into everything, making it a part, making environmental justice. And, you know, referring back to the zero article that you mentioned, you know, addressing root causes that include racism and systemic racism and disenfranchisement, the lack of representation. When you start building that thinking into everything that you do, these things cease to become distractions or other priorities.

00:38:10:03 - 00:38:31:01
Rob Thieler
They become part of how you have to think about it. And I think that creates a tremendous opportunity for messaging such that everyone has to be involved. Everyone will benefit and just proceed from there. You know, you can't look away from it. You have to look at the whole picture. And yes, there's a lot of very important, some pictures.

00:38:31:01 - 00:38:56:03
Rob Thieler
But when you start thinking constantly, relentlessly, radically about, you know, the comprehensive approach and the consequences of choosing this priority over that priority. And how far does that move you down the road to being a more resilient community, to being a more just an equitable community? One, I think you really start to make some headway. And a lot of that clutter goes, well, we have to do this to the exclusion and.

00:38:56:05 - 00:39:21:28
David Mark Welch
I think another great example of, sorry, but now going on, you know, on the local level, the sort of intersectionality as you think about things like the housing crisis that's facing us right now. And particularly for, you know, low income housing, low income housing can be built with oil heat because that's the cheapest that's the cheapest way for the contractors to do it.

00:39:21:28 - 00:39:44:03
David Mark Welch
And that's the cheapest way for the town to get affordable housing. That's not the cheapest energy solution for the people who are then going to be occupying those houses, you know, so if if those homes are built with heat pumps rather than oil heat, then that's a better solution for the low income people who actually have to pay the costs long term.

00:39:44:03 - 00:40:18:18
David Mark Welch
And I know, habitat for humanity has done a great job of integrating those kinds of things into their house builds. And that's a challenge for for Falmouth and for other communities. And I know that Falmouth has done, you know, they've started to look at where are the areas where affordable housing can be built that is, a reasonable compromise between overdevelopment on certain kinds of land and the need to put housing in certain areas of, of high density, and trying to figure out how best to do that.

00:40:18:18 - 00:40:26:13
David Mark Welch
But, the housing crisis is a real good example of intersectionality of, of racism and climate crisis.

00:40:26:15 - 00:40:45:19
Rob Thieler
And there and to your earlier point on G about, you know, coastal processes and the, you know, the infinite number of miles that is of coastal around every sand grain, that gets to be a really big number. Yeah. But, you know, where would that housing be? You know, how close is it to is 100 year flood plain?

00:40:45:19 - 00:41:10:08
Rob Thieler
How might how close might it be to, you know, the 2030 or 20 40 or 20 5000 year flood plain? Because quite often those those are the folks, you know, the folks who are going to be living there do not have the resources. They're not resilient to, you know, having their, you know, houses contents washed away or having their car flooded with saltwater, you know, things like that.

00:41:10:11 - 00:41:17:09
Rob Thieler
So, you know, we're on the landscape in this goes, is going to be, you know, just as important as what energy source within reason.

00:41:17:12 - 00:41:20:20
Onjalé Scott Price
And who gets to be at the table when those decisions are being made.

00:41:22:17 - 00:42:06:17
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah. Well, you're mentioning of the, the flooding is reminding me of the, the headlines and the, news stories that have seemingly been nightly in the last few months, about flooding in places like Mississippi and, Kentucky and, Texas and other places, and it's all it always seems to strike me that, you know, when you look, when I see those reports, most of the people impacted, not all, but most of the people impacted who were talking about having had their belongings washed away.

00:42:06:19 - 00:42:31:09
Rev. Will Mebane
They tend to be black and brown folks, and they certainly almost always, poor folks. Yeah. So it underscores that what we would where we we're saying early, I want to make sure our viewers, of the conversation, know more, know what Angie was referencing when she was saying we, had a strategic planning session.

00:42:31:12 - 00:42:35:28
Rev. Will Mebane
And, yeah, we are going to be doing this. And so you want to explain.

00:42:35:28 - 00:42:57:23
Onjalé Scott Price
Yes. And actually, that gives me a good chance to clarify. We as the former select board, we discussed this. I should be clear, we did not vote anything. I don't want anybody to come after me that I said something that we had not voted on. So we did have a good discussion. We were in agreement. We agreed that we were in agreement, that we wanted to move forward with looking at how adding a sustainability director would look in our FY 24 budget.

00:42:57:27 - 00:43:06:01
Onjalé Scott Price
So we at the Pharma Select Board, I can speak on the behalf of that, but we haven't voted anything yet. So stay tuned for what we decide in a couple weeks.

00:43:06:03 - 00:43:11:24
David Mark Welch
And I was trying to look very hard at will there while we were having that conversation that I was not lobbying.

00:43:11:26 - 00:43:12:29
Rob Thieler
I was.

00:43:13:02 - 00:43:16:15
Onjalé Scott Price
Like, okay, I can't tell.

00:43:16:18 - 00:43:49:19
Rev. Will Mebane
But listen is probably a good time for us to, go and listen to and see what our people on the street had to say in response to our second question. And I want to give, Rob a heads up that, you've mentioned several times, environmental justice and, you sent me a communication on a couple of months ago, where you talked about environmental justice and why it was important to, to attend to that.

00:43:49:21 - 00:44:10:00
Rev. Will Mebane
So I'm gonna come back and ask you some, questions about that. But right now, let's let's take a look at, the other clip of our people on the street who are going to be responding to the question, what steps, what steps are necessary to ensure environmental justice and what steps are necessary to ensure environmental justice?

00:44:10:02 - 00:44:19:03
Rev. Will Mebane
Let's see what the Kirsten and Betty had to say.

00:44:19:05 - 00:44:50:07
Bette Hecox-Lea
First thing I want to say, it gets tricky now because climate change at this point is a true emergency. And so the future and justice are not ensured for any of us. But as we go forward into solutions, to address both these, it's important to keep life as the focus, to treat people and nature well and care for each other, and to really vet solutions that we would go into.

00:44:50:09 - 00:45:14:19
Bette Hecox-Lea
Through that lens, I've learned there are three questions you can ask to ensure justice is being addressed in any policy or plan. And that's who pays, who benefits, and who decides. And those can be simple questions. But to really dig into the answers is more complicated, because who pays and who benefits includes money, but doesn't stop at money.

00:45:14:21 - 00:45:35:20
Bette Hecox-Lea
It could be the trees giving their lives. It could be who's currently suffering from the system we have. And could it change and benefit them? And so it can be pretty complicated, but it's definitely worth doing. And I think that's the way to, ensure justice is done for both people. And the planet.

00:45:35:22 - 00:45:39:27
Kristin Meyer-Kaiser
First of all, I'm not going to claim to have the the complete answer.

00:45:40:00 - 00:46:10:13
Kristin Meyer-Kaiser
And obviously, I have no lived experience of systemic racism as it affects black and brown people in the United States. I've lived as a white woman, so that is my experience. But in my view, I think that having financial mechanisms to address the historical and modern systemic disparities, that lead to disparate outcomes in wealth distribution between races, that's absolutely necessary.

00:46:10:13 - 00:46:41:27
Kristin Meyer-Kaiser
And yes, I am talking about reparations because there is no way that we will enable people to cope with climate change in an effective way unless we go back and address the problems that we've created that have led to some people being more impacted by climate change than others. There's a lot of organizations, I think, that have, an environmental focus and strongly white membership, which doesn't necessarily speak to white people being more interested in environmental causes.

00:46:41:29 - 00:46:59:14
Kristin Meyer-Kaiser
It may speak more to their voices being more readily accepted or heard, and including the voices of people who are more severely impacted by climate is actually a very important part of shaping environmental policy going forward.

00:46:59:16 - 00:47:37:03
Rev. Will Mebane
Well, once again, both Betty and Kirsten have given us, much to think about. For our, in-studio panelists, to chew on, Rob Thaler and David Mark Welch. So I want to hear what they have to say in response to, the question, what steps was necessary to ensure environmental injustice. But I, you know, Rob and I had an opportunity to have a little exchange via email a few weeks ago, and in that he raised the whole issue, a question of environmental justice.

00:47:37:03 - 00:48:12:05
Rev. Will Mebane
And one of the things, I remember Rob saying is that environment, environmental justice, and equity, benefits everyone. Everyone benefits from it. And that approaching science through an an environmental justice lens can help support underserved communities and yielding positive outcomes help make science better, more inclusive, and more actionable. They really caught my eye, Rob. And, I want to give you a moment, to say more about that.

00:48:12:05 - 00:48:13:11
Rev. Will Mebane
If you if you would.

00:48:13:13 - 00:48:39:06
Rob Thieler
I'm sure happy to. And hopefully at the end, I'll be able to tie it back to the work that Angie and David and I have done as part of the Woods Hole Diversity Initiative and Diversity, advisory Committee. You know, it was fascinating when I got that email. Oh, here is a really interesting opportunity, to talk about how at least, you know, my professional perception, of this, really relates.

00:48:39:06 - 00:48:54:12
Rob Thieler
And, you know, I, I recall making, you know, a couple of points. One is that you were, and you had asked me a few questions about how to frame one of, you know, to help me frame my response. Now, one is that we talked at the at the head of the program. You know, the science on climate change is clear.

00:48:54:12 - 00:49:22:04
Rob Thieler
It is publicly accessible. It is well documented. You know, everyone has access to all the same data. We do, you know, as a scientific community, continue to improve our understanding of the impacts and the consequences of climate change, you know, many of which we have discussed. So far, during this discussion, and we have a much better understanding of the benefits and the costs, the societal responses.

00:49:22:11 - 00:49:45:00
Rob Thieler
And we need to start thinking more holistically about this because it doesn't it'll take everybody in the benefits, everybody. And you know, where I was coming from with, you know, approaching science through an a mental justice lens, really comes from, the environmental justice, you know, what is environmental justice? You know, it's a vision for a better future.

00:49:45:03 - 00:50:36:24
Rob Thieler
Know where everybody enjoys equal protection from environmental harm, equal access to healthy environments and environmental resources and the benefits of them, you know, whether they're extractive, renewable, whatever. And has meaningful participation in environmental, government governance, and, you know, management, decision making. And the world we have right now is characterized by. Environmental injustice. You know, certain groups, as we've discussed, you know, have borne and continue to bear a disproportionate burden of the harm, do not enjoy the same resources and benefits are not heard, in the decision making process through structural and systemic barriers that we that we've talked about, and I think it's, you know, in our little corner of

00:50:36:24 - 00:51:03:06
Rob Thieler
the universe here in Falmouth and Woods Hole, you know, the things that we have been working on, in the scientific community, around assessing where are we in terms of diversifying Stem, the people who are going to help, frame the scientific solutions and the consequences of scientific solutions and the societal impacts of how we do our science and all that, has been, you know, I think a microcosm of this larger conversation.

00:51:03:06 - 00:51:45:22
Rob Thieler
And, and it started, you know, with the science institution leaders back in 2004 agreeing that there was a real problem in diversity and style and representation that was compromising the quality, depth and impact of our science. And we needed to address that. And we began to work together, all six with all science institutions on building new programs, and bringing in people from underrepresented groups and, you know, developing educational programs and talent, and bringing them back into the Woods Hole community to hopefully be a part worth scattering them like seeds across the country and across the world, to carry that message of the importance of Earth and ocean science and

00:51:45:23 - 00:52:16:26
Rob Thieler
the biological science and all the things that we do here, climate science. And that's been really exciting. And along the way, we took a very hard look back in 2017, what are the barriers within our community? You know, what is our level of, cultural competence? What is, you know, the extent or the lack of diversity that impacts us where, where are we experiencing, you know, overt racism and microaggressions?

00:52:16:28 - 00:52:38:29
Rob Thieler
You know, how is our community disposed? Are we engage able, to address this problem, or are we apathetic or resigned to always being this kind of culture? And you know the answer in that report was you can't be. You have to strive for change. And that has helped frame a lot of our thinking, especially, in the last couple of years.

00:52:39:01 - 00:52:55:10
Rob Thieler
And I think we're, you know, but we've also learned that it's a slow process, as fast as you would like to go and never be fast enough and as thoughtful as you'd like to be. Sometimes you just have to take a risk and say, this is going to be a little different, and it's going to challenge a lot of people.

00:52:55:13 - 00:53:14:26
Rob Thieler
And we're going to tell, you know, we are this this is all the time. And when they work, we celebrate. And, you know, we also celebrate because now it teaches us what we can do. Now, other than that didn't work. So we're, you know, we're in this sort of infinite loop of let's try something and see if we can move the needle in the direction we want it to go.

00:53:14:26 - 00:53:32:26
Rob Thieler
And we've met with some really significant successes over the years, and I think it gives me hope as, as, as someone who's part of a larger scientific community, in our national and international events that we can get at this.

00:53:32:29 - 00:53:55:28
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah. Really make some really good points there, Rob. You know, when we look at our scientific community within woods, all within Dartmouth, we have done a lot of work. We still have, you know, a lot of ways to go that. But something you said reminded me that we we need to commit to continuing to learn and and learning is what we as scientists like to do.

00:53:56:01 - 00:54:17:06
Onjalé Scott Price
But sometimes we think we know everything about something, and we don't necessarily want to put in work to learn more or we think that, you know, we know enough. And when I was talking about being in school in Florida and Hurricane Katrina coming and, you know, destroying, many parts of Louisiana and other parts in the South and, and me talking with people and thinking like, yeah, why didn't people just move?

00:54:17:06 - 00:54:38:11
Onjalé Scott Price
That was that was what I knew at the time. That was my thought process. Then. And I mean, in many ways, I like to think that I've grown and think differently and have learned and clearly I have, because now I look back on that and think, wow, that was really that was a really dumb thought. Like, I, I was looking at that from my privileged perspective of I would have just moved, but thinking now, like, well, I have those resources.

00:54:38:13 - 00:54:57:01
Onjalé Scott Price
I had that financial ability through my family and not everyone has that. And so as you, you made these points about doing the work that we're doing in Woods Hole and and hoping, you know, my goal is hoping that all my students come back to Woods Hole. But realistically, you know, them going out into the world and spreading this message is actually just as important.

00:54:57:03 - 00:55:20:17
Onjalé Scott Price
Because the work that we do here, we don't want it to just stay here. We want it. We want it to broaden the science that we want. I mean, broaden within science, and we want it to go other places so that other people and other communities are doing the type of work that we're doing to diversify these fields, that are going to be doing the research and doing the work about how to mitigate the the climate change and the the climate crisis that we're in.

00:55:20:20 - 00:55:34:02
Rev. Will Mebane
But, David, I know that, subject, is also very important to, you know, I diversification, diversity in the Stem field. Anything you want to add to what Andy and Rob have shared?

00:55:34:05 - 00:55:58:09
David Mark Welch
I it's hard. It's hard to say it better than better than they have. But I think, I mean, in particular to this question of how are we going to address the changes that are needed in the way that we approach the climate crisis. And it's absolutely correct. We need more voices at the table. We need more diversity in the organizations that are trying to do something about climate change.

00:55:58:12 - 00:56:21:09
David Mark Welch
And we need more, you know, black and brown scientists and people who are knowledgeable about climate change may not, if not necessarily scientists. I mean, not all of the students are going to go on to become, you know, go on to scientific careers, which I think is fine, because what we need is more citizens who are highly educated in science.

00:56:21:11 - 00:56:42:13
David Mark Welch
And if these people go into policy, if these people go into city management, if these people go into any of those kinds of fields with the knowledge that they learned being here at Woods Hole, and I think that's a win for everybody. We need more scientific literacy among the people who are trying to figure out what to do about climate change.

00:56:42:13 - 00:56:46:24
David Mark Welch
And even among the people who aren't sure we should be doing anything about climate change.

00:56:46:27 - 00:56:53:07
Rev. Will Mebane
And just so our viewers, I know what you mean. Pep is.

00:56:53:13 - 00:57:15:28
Onjalé Scott Price
Oh, sorry, another of the thing I take for granted the Woods Hole Partnership education program, we call it Pep. So Rob mentioned back in 2004, the leaders of the six institutions in Woods Hole created the Woods Hole Diversity Initiative. And that's what Rob is currently the chair of. And David sits on that as well. And the Woods Hole Diversity initiative in turn, created the Woods Hole Diversity Advisory Committee, which I'm co-chair with.

00:57:16:01 - 00:57:39:02
Onjalé Scott Price
Along with Houck, who works at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. And in 2009, we even I wasn't there yet, but I would claim it. We, started the Pep internship, and it brings a group of at least about 15 undergraduates, to Woods Hole from diverse backgrounds. So we focus on bringing diversity in with diversity within undergraduates to Woods Hole to do research for the summer.

00:57:39:06 - 00:57:49:06
Onjalé Scott Price
And so this was our first time back in person after two years virtual. And it was amazing. Don't let me go off on a tangent about it, because I love the but I love my students and I'll go on forever about it.

00:57:49:09 - 00:58:15:08
Rev. Will Mebane
Well, I want to remind our viewers that, we did do a show on Stem and racism in Stem, and we had, and to talk more about Pep. And so if you're interested, you can go to the archives at Abc-Tv or go online and find the, the conversation on the CTV YouTube channel. And you'll be able to to see that program if you'd like to know more about it.

00:58:15:11 - 00:58:39:13
Rev. Will Mebane
As we wrap up here, I want to just highlight a couple things that I heard from, both Betty and from, from Kirsten I think are worth repeating. First of all, Betty said, you know, in this whole concern about the climate crisis, the climate emergency, as a result of the crisis, we're we're in the emergency.

00:58:39:13 - 00:59:13:04
Rev. Will Mebane
We're in our futures, are not assured. And, there's no assurance of of justice for any of us if we don't pay attention to, to this crisis we're facing. She also said we need to keep life as the focus, keep life as a focus, and as a, a clergy person, a spiritual leader that certainly spoke to my heart and my ears perked up and that we've got to care for one another.

00:59:13:06 - 01:00:01:00
Rev. Will Mebane
And, but then she said, we've got to ask three questions if we want to know, who's doing what and how and why. And who to hold accountable for the situation in which we find ourselves, she said, ask these three question who pays? Who benefits? Who decides? And and each of you has talked about the need to have, more diverse voices, racially and ethnically, ethnically diverse voices at the table as those, decisions are made, as those policies to address, to mitigate, again, the climate emergency, those policies are developed.

01:00:01:03 - 01:00:12:17
Rev. Will Mebane
So I want to give each of you a chance, if you have any last thoughts to, to offer before we we wrap our program up. Rob, we'll begin with you. Anything you want to add?

01:00:12:19 - 01:00:44:04
Rob Thieler
I, you know, how can I follow that? You know, my my my thought was, what are the centering principles and what can we agree on to be the center and principles about how we approach these issues, whether it's systemic and structural racism, environmental justice, and on that kind of I think, you know, the speakers in the lead up, you know, captured, really well, you know, it's it's life.

01:00:44:06 - 01:00:58:17
Rob Thieler
It's life on the planet, and it's life with each other. You know, in a functioning, sustainable society, and the care that we show towards and the things that we know.

01:00:58:19 - 01:01:19:01
David Mark Welch
About, you know, so kind of in on maybe a little bit different note. And I was talking about increasing diversity in, in, in the, in the fields that study climate change. I was reminded that a couple of years ago at the MVL, we had one of our Friday evening speakers, a woman named Ayanna Johnson. Just one.

01:01:19:03 - 01:01:43:04
David Mark Welch
Yeah. And she is one of the few, you know, black marine biologists out there. And she gave an absolutely fantastic talk and because we're all on zoom, I was able to actually pull something up here while, while we were on the break and just pulling this back to the idea of racism, she says, as a marine biologist and policy nerd, building community around climate solutions is my life's work.

01:01:43:06 - 01:02:11:20
David Mark Welch
But I'm also a black person in the United States of America. I work on one existential crisis, but these days I can't concentrate because of another. And this is from a blog post where she talks about the fact that as a black woman in America, how much energy she has to spend dealing with racism rather than dealing with the things that she wants to deal with, which in her case is, is the climate crisis.

01:02:11:23 - 01:02:16:09
Rev. Will Mebane
As we say in my profession, that I preach,

01:02:16:11 - 01:02:17:00
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah.

01:02:17:02 - 01:02:22:01
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah. And you and I can, I'll speak for you. We can relate to that. Right on.

01:02:22:03 - 01:02:45:16
Onjalé Scott Price
Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And I, I'm not even sure how to follow that because I feel that on a deep level, so often, I wish I could just focus on what my work is and the task at hand. But I can't. I talked about this a little bit after, like, campaigning in Falmouth is how much time I had to spend defending some things that I am certain.

01:02:45:17 - 01:03:07:15
Onjalé Scott Price
After talking to many of the people who ran, they did not have to defend and spending so much time thinking about not looking like the angry black woman not wearing my hair a certain way. Because that might turn off voters not talking about specific subjects in a certain way, because that would turn off people. When I know my colleagues did not have to think about any of those things.

01:03:07:18 - 01:03:23:25
Onjalé Scott Price
And so I and that's just one very small example. So I can relate to that on a very deep note. And, I don't know if I have anything else to add after that because that, that was that's a yeah, that's real.

01:03:23:27 - 01:03:57:12
Rev. Will Mebane
Well, that's why we, stay in the struggle and that's why we are grateful to have, not just allies, but accomplices in the struggle. Accomplices like, David Mark Welch, from the Marine Biological Laboratory and, Rob Ziegler, diversity, inclusion change agent with the. Who were you with us Geological society? We need we need accomplices like you to join us in this, in the struggle.

01:03:57:15 - 01:04:26:14
Rev. Will Mebane
So thank you, dear viewers, as always, for being with us. And we look forward to having you engage with us in, another episode of The Conversation in the weeks to come. For now, on behalf of Sctv, particularly Alan Russell, Debbie Rogers, and of course, my, co-host, Angela Scott Price. Thank you again. Until the next time.