00;00;10;03 - 00;00;34;24
Onjalé Scott Price
Welcome back to another episode of The Conversation. I'm Onjalé Scott Price, and I'm joined by my wonderful, honorable, fantastic, amazing reverend Will Mebane So excited that we get to join you all in another conversation this month. So if you've watched a few episodes before, you've seen that we generally have some theme that goes along that goes along with racism.

00;00;34;27 - 00;00;58;15
Onjalé Scott Price
So we've talked about racism and the arts and sports and education. Today we're going to do a little bit different. We're going to talk a little bit broader. We're going to talk about racism and stereotypes. So something that I think we're all going to be able to relate to. There's multiple different types of stereotypes unfortunately. But today we're going to focus on stereotypes and how they perpetuate racism.

00;00;58;17 - 00;01;14;24
Onjalé Scott Price
So looking forward to this conversation today, we will turn it over to our people on the street to talk about how do stereotypes perpetuate racism? So let's hear what they have to say.

00;01;14;26 - 00;01;53;24
Chandler Alves
So when I think about stereotypes, I think about racist ideas. I believe that most stereotypes are racist ideas. And actually Abraham x Kennedy speaks about this a lot. Where most racist ideas come from, racist policies. So a lot of the stereotypes that we have today that are still affecting people of color and, black people in the community come from racist ideas, which initially started from racist policies, because a lot of stereotypes tend to be in our biases.

00;01;54;01 - 00;02;21;10
Chandler Alves
And a bias is a biological function where we save mental resources by, using things that we already know in the back of our head. And it's not conscious. And so we tend if we have an idea of a group or a culture that we do not know a lot about, we tend to use our bias, which can be stereotypes and racist ideas.

00;02;21;13 - 00;03;03;06
Sandra Faiman Silva
I believe that stereotypes overly simplify the complexity, diversity, and richness of humans, and they reduce a whole category of people to very a few very simple and often biased features. So they tend to emphasize the negative, features of people, and ignore the positive. And it seems that humans, like to simplify their environment and categorize their environment in ways that make their world understandable to them.

00;03;03;09 - 00;03;12;01
Sandra Faiman Silva
So stereotypes tend to feed into that need, of humanity.

00;03;12;03 - 00;03;19;23
Sheri White
Well, with stereotypes, you know, we we assume something about people just based on who they are or what they look like.

00;03;19;25 - 00;03;22;13
Sheri White
Right? Whether they're man or woman.

00;03;22;15 - 00;03;25;21
Sheri White
Black or white or of their religion and, and.

00;03;25;23 - 00;03;26;15
Sheri White
And.

00;03;26;17 - 00;04;01;27
Sheri White
Usually when we talk about stereotypes, we're assuming something negative or limiting about somebody. Right. So we get used to white men being people we see in power, and we think of them as being good leaders and maybe black people not being good leaders. And so when we have those kind of implicit biases kind of built in, we just kind of, you know, perpetuate the, the, policies that, that keep white men in power or prohibit, you know, black men, black women from, from getting into.

00;04;01;28 - 00;04;04;01
Sheri White
Positions of power.

00;04;04;03 - 00;04;28;09
Onjalé Scott Price
So we've just heard from our people on the street answering the question, how do stereotypes perpetuate racism? So I'm really looking forward to this conversation and seeing where we go. So I'm really excited that we have a couple guests with us today. So first, I'd like to pass it over to Care Renaldo, an artist who's been in Falmouth since 1972, and her dedication to history made her known as a visual historian.

00;04;28;12 - 00;04;43;26
Onjalé Scott Price
And you can visit her art at her gallery on Main Street called Gallery on Main Street. So, Karen, I'd like to pass it over to you and hear a little bit about, what you thought of the the comments from the people on the street, or if you have any other thoughts about how stereotypes perpetuate racism.

00;04;43;28 - 00;05;13;13
Karen Rinaldo
Well, I did I appreciated those, interviews. I have a couple of comments. And I think they would fit in with, with their comments. My my first my initial feeling was, is racial stereotype a learned behavior or is it an innate, facility of of one's conditioning, or upbringing? Is it family influence?

00;05;13;14 - 00;05;43;22
Karen Rinaldo
Is it influenced by friends or a working environment? Is it is it an environmental condition? I guess, and, and and in that then would play society at large is society's perspective. And then, you know into that all plays in, biased feelings and, prejudice. There's a whole host of other components that are involved in that.

00;05;43;25 - 00;05;50;06
Karen Rinaldo
So those are my comments based on the, off the street comments by people on the street.

00;05;50;08 - 00;06;16;18
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah. Good questions. I hope, we get a chance to dig into some of those that. Thank you for those. Talia I'd like to ask you, your thoughts. Talia is a mashpee Wampanoag tribal citizen videographer, journalist, and filmmaker currently focusing her work on promoting educational and cultural programs for tribal community and working on partnerships with state education institutions to advocate and benefit Native American students, which is really, really awesome.

00;06;16;18 - 00;06;23;04
Onjalé Scott Price
Great work that you're doing. So I'd love to hear, what you think about, how stereotypes perpetuate racism.

00;06;23;06 - 00;06;53;11
Talia Landry
Yeah. I mean, what everybody said on the street was definitely valid and things to consider within that thought process. But I don't think that you can have stereotypes without racism. Like the same. The same concept that creates stereotypes comes from the same concepts that that created racism. So you can't have one without the other. Stereotypes. I feel like it's just a broader term for what essentially is a judgment based off of perceptions.

00;06;53;14 - 00;07;02;14
Talia Landry
And so obviously, I mean stereotypes definitely perpetuate racism because they are, I think, point blank and simple.

00;07;02;16 - 00;07;28;16
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah, I, I would agree with that. It was somebody on the street did make a comment that, racism in it supports stereotypes and vice versa. So the more that we have stereotypes and that we repeat them, the more it it makes racism, the more it supports racism and racist ideas. So I absolutely agree. I'll pass it over to my wonderful co-host, Rev.

00;07;28;18 - 00;07;34;25
Onjalé Scott Price
Rev, what are your thoughts on how stereotypes perpetuate racism?

00;07;34;27 - 00;07;42;17
Rev. Will Mebane
Please keep calling me wonderful. I love it when you.

00;07;42;19 - 00;08;05;26
Rev. Will Mebane
First of all, welcome. Karen. Good to see you, Talia. Great to see you. I think it was, gosh, over a year ago, and we last had you on the show, and you taught us something in that show, which is you and I still hold very dear. About stereotypes and, and what have you. So.

00;08;05;28 - 00;08;39;22
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah, I, I like the what the folks on the street had to say and what, Karen and to all you have shared also and I loved especially what Chandler said that most stereotypes, most stereotypes are, are racist ideas that come from racist policies. Right. So you have these these policies. And I'm going to go back to my youth when I was raised in the South, I won't call it the Deep South, but it was deep enough.

00;08;39;22 - 00;09;13;07
Rev. Will Mebane
I was raised in North Carolina during the Jim Crow era. I was raised in that time when there were, segregated drinking fountains with signs, you know, colored only or white only. I was raised in that time when seating, on busses was segregated people, black people were sheltered to the back and, not being able to go into restaurants, or at least not in the front door.

00;09;13;07 - 00;09;31;04
Rev. Will Mebane
You had to go around the back to the side door and sort of they toss your food out to you, you know, they take you money, but you couldn't go in and sit down. And I as a child, I just I didn't get that, you know, and I don't think I was any different from anyone else. Was just.

00;09;31;06 - 00;10;16;08
Rev. Will Mebane
Why, why? And, and so then when I, when I started matriculating, through high school, and I was among the earliest classes to integrate, my high school there in Durham, North Carolina, and began to be confronted with these stereotypes. I played sports right. And, and and so the the belief was that black athletes, football players, for instance, couldn't play quarterback, just because you're black and I never, never understood that.

00;10;16;08 - 00;10;44;22
Rev. Will Mebane
Right. And so anyway, so I, I grew up, having to deal with these stereotypes. And of course, I still have them today. I'll give, give you just a couple of examples. One locally and one in, another community where, where I served as, dean of a cathedral. And I'll never forget, I was standing there one day with my, colleague who was my assistant.

00;10;44;24 - 00;11;15;23
Rev. Will Mebane
And there were some people unfamiliar to us who came in, some visitors to the cathedral, and, so I'm standing there next to my sister, who's white, and they immediately went to him to introduce themselves and to talk about what a beautiful cathedral it was and how glad they were they had come, and etc., etc.. And then finally he said, my assistant said, well, would you like to meet our dean who was standing?

00;11;15;23 - 00;11;43;13
Rev. Will Mebane
I was standing right, right there next to them. Would you like to meet our dean? And the color just went completely out of the faces of these white individuals, because they realized, I think they realized that they were perpetuating a stereotype. And that stereotype was, of course, a black person could not be dean of a cathedral. My gosh, really, a black person could have had that position.

00;11;43;15 - 00;12;05;21
Rev. Will Mebane
And then I come to Falmouth and I hadn't been in Falmouth, very long. And I've told this story on the conversation, I think, a couple of times, but it still just resonates with me. It still sticks with me. Three and a half years later, there was a Friday night I came home. It was late 10 or 11:00 at night.

00;12;05;21 - 00;12;30;21
Rev. Will Mebane
I pulled into the, to what we call what we call Holy Road, the driveway that leads into, Saint Barnabas and I see fire engines all over the place, and, so I got out, curious about what was going on, of course. And, a member of the Falmouth Fire Rescue, comes over to me and he says, oh, I'm so glad you're here.

00;12;30;21 - 00;12;52;28
Rev. Will Mebane
So we've been waiting for the caretaker. And I was like, okay, so you're the caretaker, right? And and I was able to think quickly enough to say to him, yeah, I take care of the souls of the people here at Saint Barnabas, but, we actually have another person who was our property manager, and I think that's what you're looking for.

00;12;52;28 - 00;13;24;07
Rev. Will Mebane
And he's on his way. He texted me and said he's on his way. So those are just a couple of examples of how stereotypes of stereotypes have been perpetuated in my life. And, and, and even when people come to the, to the parish to, to to see a black person as an Episcopal priest, is very unusual. And and of course, the stereotype is, you know, one not many black people are members of the Episcopal Church, which is true.

00;13;24;09 - 00;14;14;11
Rev. Will Mebane
And two, there are very few, black people in the, in the Episcopal Church. So the stereotypes. Yeah, they're all around in unfortunately, like, like, professor, Fineman silver said and heard remarks, you know, stereotypes oversimplify the richness of human beings. We diminish people when we restrict them to to stereotypes and often, the stereotypes, especially when it comes to people of color or, or negative, you know, one of the biggest stereotypes is that, you know, all black folks or poor or all black folks, or most black folks are criminals or most black homes.

00;14;14;13 - 00;14;30;08
Rev. Will Mebane
Don't have two parents in them. And those are all just grossly exaggerated, and not even close to being being true. So, yeah, those are my my initial comments. Angie.

00;14;30;11 - 00;14;51;28
Onjalé Scott Price
I just want to take a step back just a little bit. You mentioned that you grew up in the Jim Crow era, and so you lived through segregation and separate water fountains and not being able to go to the front door. And I just want to take a moment to appreciate that, because I know when I was taught in school about segregation and I wasn't really taught about Jim Crow, I learned that later.

00;14;52;00 - 00;15;12;27
Onjalé Scott Price
It's always made to be to seem like it was so long ago. Like we're so far past that it's so far behind us in our history, and they only show us the black and white photos to make it seem even older. When I say they, I mean books and media and whatnot, and it really perpetuates. I don't know if it's necessarily a stereotype, but it perpetuates this image.

00;15;13;00 - 00;15;30;21
Onjalé Scott Price
That that was so long ago, and we're over it and we should forget about it. We don't see the remnants of that today. But you're still you're still young. You're still out here living life, and yet that you remember that. So it wasn't even like when, you know, when you were super, super. Yeah. Like you remember that.

00;15;30;26 - 00;15;41;25
Onjalé Scott Price
And being part of one of the first schools that integrated. I just think that we should appreciate that, that history is not as old as as we are often made to feel like it is.

00;15;41;27 - 00;16;12;21
Rev. Will Mebane
Wasn't that long ago. And, I appreciate you, saying that I'm still relatively young. Thank you. Talia, let me ask you that question. Being an indigenous person, proud member of the woman that make up a nomination. You individually and I'm. I am going to assume members of your nation have also had to deal with all kinds of stereotype.

00;16;12;21 - 00;16;25;20
Rev. Will Mebane
So I can think of a couple coming to mind right now as I'm asking that question. But what kind of stereotypes, have been perpetuated to, perpetuate racism against indigenous peoples like the mob benign?

00;16;25;22 - 00;16;59;12
Talia Landry
I mean, I think the, the most of interactions with natives and non-natives, as far as like when you meet, perpetuates a stereotype within the non-native because there is so few of us, you know, in America that, not I don't think as many people are exposed to Native Americans. So their first, you know, presumptions when meeting a Native American, they have very stereotypical responses or questions.

00;16;59;14 - 00;17;29;15
Talia Landry
And that is just something that we literally deal with on a day to day basis. Some of the things I guess, I mean, or the questions I would say, that perpetuate basically the stereotype of what Native Americans are or. Yeah, what happens to us is like, you know, don't you go to school for free? It's just general stuff.

00;17;29;17 - 00;17;48;20
Talia Landry
It's hard to, like, think of everything because they're all, like, flooding at once, you know? And it's, because within my age now, I'm very used to just, like, dealing with it, I guess, and having a correct response to those in a humbling way that, they don't really come right off the bat, but,

00;17;48;23 - 00;18;17;17
Rev. Will Mebane
Let me, let me let me see if I can help you because, yeah, I'm holding a couple and maybe that'll help. Help your floodgates. Break open. Not that we want to traumatize you or anyone here. That's not what this show is about. But, you know, I was taught. And one of the stereotypes is that, Indians, quote unquote, all alcoholics, they drink all the time and, that they're all violent.

00;18;17;20 - 00;18;21;04
Rev. Will Mebane
Right? That's. Am I right or wrong about that?

00;18;21;04 - 00;18;52;13
Talia Landry
Yeah. I'm very angry, you know, that's definitely a stereotype for natives. That, you know, we don't know how to conduct ourselves. I guess, in a civilized way. It's one of those ancient stereotypes that basically is what formed America today. And, I mean, we we talked about this and we, the point brought up a little earlier about how, you know, is stereotypes and racism, something that you're brought up basically learning, like through parenting and stuff like that.

00;18;52;15 - 00;19;33;21
Talia Landry
Well, that is I think a big part of it, but also is what is taught in school and what is taught in school or in, in today's American society is it has it supports what American society wants to perpetuate within their own stereotype and within that they perpetuate stereotypes of the Native Americans. And we're just trying to kind of we're just I think breaking through with combating that, you know, on a on a state and public level where more people are trying to be more conscious of, you know, really, saying the other side of history and really telling it it is for what it is because a lot of, the like, first encounter,

00;19;33;23 - 00;19;57;28
Talia Landry
documents will describe Native Americans in a certain way, but they're always written from a certain perspective. And it it perpetuates stereotypes. And this stereotype has literally been happening to us since the first colonizers came over. And it's a colonizer mentality that has stuck throughout. And so people perpetuate that within talking and meeting Native Americans for the first time.

00;19;58;05 - 00;20;29;12
Talia Landry
And then they also assume certain things, you know, because we even have to deal with it within our, you know, local press of them holding on to certain stories or delivering stories in a certain way that don't fully convey exactly what happened or really just, like, narrow in on, to perpetuate a stereotype of violence or, just sort of some sort of mayhem that's coming from the tribe without actually, you know, talking about what we do and what's good and stuff like that.

00;20;29;12 - 00;20;50;06
Talia Landry
You know, they, they pick up on the negative and it's to keep on, keep up with what exactly what you're saying with that, that violent and kind of alcoholic mindset. And I think it, it is to kind of double down and amplify this persona of what Americans want America to look like, of what they formed this great society for.

00;20;50;08 - 00;21;07;03
Talia Landry
You know, and I think it just it, it, it keeps that up, you know, and it also it makes it harder for us to be able to tell our side of the story since it's never really been heard or appreciated or respected. I think that got a little too deep.

00;21;07;03 - 00;21;10;13
Onjalé Scott Price
But no, no, no, we.

00;21;10;15 - 00;21;10;18
Rev. Will Mebane
You.

00;21;10;19 - 00;21;12;08
Talia Landry
Do that here though,

00;21;12;10 - 00;21;33;21
Onjalé Scott Price
We do that here. So I want to, I want to ask Karen to comment on that a little bit because Karen, you mentioned, when I was asking you about, you know, what? What should I, what should I say about you? What's what a good part of of your biography? One point that really stood out was, because of your dedication to history, you became known as the visual historian.

00;21;33;21 - 00;21;47;06
Onjalé Scott Price
And so I'm sure that means that you had to get past a lot of stereotypes and a lot of, B.S. and other things to get to the meat of what you were looking forward to display it visually. So can you tell us more about the work that you've done?

00;21;47;08 - 00;22;16;06
Karen Rinaldo
Well, several, several things that, Talia had had commented on really went to the heart of a few things that, I could relay. You know, I'm a very visual person, just by nature of my commitment to my work. But I'll also add that I'm a very colorblind person in terms of, how I interact or my relationships with with people.

00;22;16;09 - 00;22;48;17
Karen Rinaldo
One of the projects that I had, that became pretty, noted, in, In the World of Art was a commission, to construct the first historically accurate, first Thanksgiving, 1621. And Talia is probably very familiar with this image. But it goes to the heart of, you know, 400 years. How do we wrap our minds around understanding something that happened 400 years ago?

00;22;48;20 - 00;23;23;10
Karen Rinaldo
And yet one of my closing comments on on presentations that we've made with this image of the first Thanksgiving is that in 400 years, not much has changed in terms of all the conditioning of a nation. You know, you talk about, prejudice or stereotypes, but the history as a nation has perpetuated certain certain aspects. But so in those closing comments I make, I say in 400 years, not much has changed.

00;23;23;12 - 00;24;00;11
Karen Rinaldo
You know, you have the natives on one side. You had the pilgrims all together at that first day celebration. And I use that word celebration only to, kind of capitalize the event. It was a it was a celebration in terms of, they had both survived, very tough times in terms of epidemic, pandemic. A journey that left, several people in desperate, state of minds and then surviving a first a first harsh winter.

00;24;00;14 - 00;24;33;16
Karen Rinaldo
So you had two elements, two cultures coming together that had both been survivors. And in that vein, I use the word celebration, not in terms of gaiety and fun and, celebratory mood, but, you know, you think about. So not much has changed with in that and that image that's being conveyed. You're showing people who are striving for peace, people who are striving to protect their families.

00;24;33;18 - 00;25;07;27
Karen Rinaldo
To have some happiness within living conditions and to be able to pursue a way of life, pursuit of happiness, you know, that that really comes back to what it's all about. And but to tell you these points, I think, you know, a couple of things that I opened up in the opening comments. Society at large creates a perspective and a perspective that's relatively based in that aspect of, bias feelings and a prejudiced, prejudiced feeling.

00;25;07;29 - 00;25;29;29
Karen Rinaldo
But our history as a nation has also perpetuated that. One of the words that jumps out at me going back to 400 years ago was a word that was quite common in the culture, and that was the word savage. That was a word that was used to describe the native people. But it was a language at that time.

00;25;30;04 - 00;26;10;13
Karen Rinaldo
Is it an acceptable language today? Of course not. But it was a language definitely then. And, you know, I think it comes down to educating the youth reeducating an older society because they have been caught up in and familiar with this type of climate. When we talk about climate change in relationship to the environment, well, it's definitely a climate change that has to exist within people's reactions and that responsible feeling that they have for one another.

00;26;10;13 - 00;26;52;29
Karen Rinaldo
It really comes down to a do good policy between people. And until people can react in a loving each other state of mind, I think that perpetuation of those differences becomes greater because the fact is, we have far greater similarities with all cultures than we have differences. And that's another thing that I see in those closing comments, that we're all different as people, but as similarities are far greater than those differences.

00;26;54;26 - 00;27;25;10
Rev. Will Mebane
That is one that is certainly true. Thank you. Thank you Karen, as an artist, I know you have, dedicated your work to, your professional work to trying to help eradicate, stereotypes. At least that's my understanding of of some of your work. I can't say that I'm a student of yours, but I do have attention to your work.

00;27;25;12 - 00;27;59;06
Rev. Will Mebane
You know, you you were you sort of apologizing about, you know, going so deep and as and you said that is okay. That's what we that's what the conversation is about, is about having deep conversations about very difficult topics. And we know that talking about race and talking about racism is still very difficult for us. It's just something I had said before is it's families don't have conversations about racism around the dinner table.

00;27;59;08 - 00;28;28;23
Rev. Will Mebane
Even if they're meeting for dinner with so many of us are, and eating and independently of one another. But the point is that we don't have the these kinds of conversations and I really appreciate it. What? Again, you know, professor, Raymond Silver said about, this this is something that these perpetuate, we perpetuate these stereotypes in order.

00;28;28;23 - 00;29;13;11
Rev. Will Mebane
If I'm remembering her and quoting her correctly, we perpetuate these stereotypes in order to accommodate what is going on within ourselves, that we need stereotypes to help, carry forward, these understandings that we have of other people. And to me, that speaks to a kind of laziness, within and among people. Right. Instead of we're going to be talking in a few minutes about, you know, how do we eradicate these stereotypes in order to deal with and eradicate racism?

00;29;13;13 - 00;29;36;15
Rev. Will Mebane
But, you know, this stuff is taught, I think maybe Karen polos that question, you know, or said something about that this that the racism is taught in is taught by uncles and aunts and cousins and coaches and priests and teachers and mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters. Right. No one comes into the world with these stereotypes.

00;29;36;17 - 00;29;53;01
Rev. Will Mebane
No one comes into the world thinking, I'm better than you because I'm white and you're black, or you're less than me because you're Wampanoag or you're native. And you know, I'm not. So that gets learned.

00;29;53;03 - 00;29;55;23
Karen Rinaldo
And it is a learned behavior.

00;29;55;25 - 00;30;17;23
Rev. Will Mebane
And so that's the thing that, you know, in the struggle against racism, that is the theme that gives me hope. And, you know, maybe I'll say more about that when we get to the second question, but let me toss it back to, to Auntie or Italy, whoever would like to make, any other comments at this point?

00;30;17;25 - 00;30;44;06
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah, I just want to add it is learned and then so it might be learned at home or through family, but then it's perpetuated in life. So it's perpetuated in our books and in our media. And and for places like Falmouth, as much as I love Falmouth South is a very, white town, there's not a lot of people of color like there are Wampanoag people here and obviously there in Mashpee and other places.

00;30;44;12 - 00;31;03;23
Onjalé Scott Price
But if you stay in your little bubble and all you know is the the stereotypes you've been taught or that you've read or that you've watched in movies and you never actually interact with people, or you never have that stereotype challenge, you're going to perpetuate those racist ideas because you have. That's all you know, and you don't have anything to challenge those ideas.

00;31;03;26 - 00;31;21;01
Onjalé Scott Price
When I was in college, I was an R.A., I was a resident advisor, and I remember one of my other R.A. friends called me late one night and asked me to come over and help with the situation with the student. And so I get there and there is a student of Asian descent who, is threatening to harm himself.

00;31;21;01 - 00;31;38;13
Onjalé Scott Price
And so we're trying to have conversation with him, and we're finally we're trying to get to like, what? What is happening? How can we help you? What is the problem? And what it came down to was he was an engineering student and he was really struggling in his courses. I, as an engineering student, also struggled in my courses.

00;31;38;18 - 00;32;04;24
Onjalé Scott Price
But the difference was, he said, I'm Asian, I'm supposed to be smart, I'm supposed to be really good at math and science, and people are asking me for help in class because I'm Asian and I'm supposed to be this and that, and I'm not these things and I don't know how to handle it. And so that was me realizing that even good stereotypes that, you know, Asian kids are smart and good at science and math and they're all successful.

00;32;05;00 - 00;32;29;23
Onjalé Scott Price
That's a horrible stereotype, even though it seems like it's a good one. And that really put in perspective. And something that that I think about quite often is he hadn't even been challenged in his own life to think that that stereotype was a stereotype and that it was okay to not fit into that mold. So I really think that the stereotypes and racist behavior in general are learned and then unfortunately, just perpetuated.

00;32;29;25 - 00;32;38;12
Onjalé Scott Price
But like you said, Rev, I think there is there is some hope. And knowing that if we understand that it's taught, then we cannot teach it.

00;32;38;14 - 00;33;00;12
Talia Landry
But another thing to add to the equation, I think, is the actual profiles and personas are taught. So obviously taking away those personas will help not aid the process. But it also stems from judgment and people feeling like they can judge people because we could actually stop all this if we just didn't have judgments or judge people based off of anything.

00;33;00;12 - 00;33;42;06
Talia Landry
If you just kind of met people when you meet people you know and genuinely lived out a genuine life, you know, and I think I the reason why I say that is that is one of like the big differences that I can see within cultures of American society and within my own culture or Americans. And that that that mentality is the big difference that you see is there's always like this prejudgment or this like manipulation or something, some sort of tactic to get to another goal or like a result, rather than being genuine and taking life for what it is, being thankful for what you have every day and learning and being open, you know,

00;33;42;06 - 00;34;05;29
Talia Landry
and having that mentality will also help us break down and and notice these personas that are being taught. Because if we remember that these teachers and, you know, preachers and stuff, remember that part of it, like it comes from a judgment as well, then they can maybe open up that door when when they're conveying their, you know, things that they have to convey, whether it be a syllabus or scripture.

00;34;05;29 - 00;34;09;18
Talia Landry
However it may be.

00;34;09;21 - 00;34;30;12
Onjalé Scott Price
That's an interesting, interesting take on that. I think that kind of points also to this, what I call like the hustle culture in American culture that you, I always have been doing something. I always gotta get to get more and outdo the next person. You got to be the best and, like, grind culture, like, don't, don't sleep because you got to do better than the next person.

00;34;30;12 - 00;34;47;20
Onjalé Scott Price
So that that really resonates, like you said, on like a whole, just the way we, we live scale is like we always have to have more and do more, which means you got to be better than somebody else, which means you gotta judge somebody else and see how you can get in a place that's better than, better than where they are or, you know, getting something root unhappiness.

00;34;47;26 - 00;34;51;03
Talia Landry
Right there.

00;34;51;05 - 00;34;51;26
Onjalé Scott Price
American dream.

00;34;51;26 - 00;34;52;14
Karen Rinaldo
Right?

00;34;52;16 - 00;35;24;28
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah. That's reminding me of what, what Chandler said in her comments from the from the street. And, but I would love to know more about it. So I'll ask, Karen and Talia and you and you maybe to. Flesh this out a little more, if you can. But she was talking about bias. And I think her quote was bias is a biological function that we use.

00;35;25;00 - 00;35;55;01
Rev. Will Mebane
To save resources against. It goes back to the point about humans are just lazy, right? So we use stereotypes as sort of a shorthand, for the world, but also with ourselves. And so our these, these things are subconscious. They're in the back of our minds. So.

00;35;55;04 - 00;36;22;10
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah. Is it a biological function or is it, just that it's so embedded that it becomes because of the indoctrination, because, again, family members and teachers and coaches and priests and whatever, drilling in these stereotypes into folks, or is there something else going on? Let mean, what do you think?

00;36;22;12 - 00;37;08;02
Karen Rinaldo
Well, if I may, address, I think it is almost like an inoculation. You, you are surrounded by certain things, going back to. Is it an environmental, play? Is it family oriented? Is it the people that you associate with business wise or in a social, casual basis? But whatever those combinations of situations are, you are inoculating yourself with, with those, those entities and, and I think, again, it goes back to educating and reeducating, educating the youth and reeducating an older population.

00;37;08;04 - 00;37;41;10
Karen Rinaldo
Because otherwise it's impossible to escape the visual. I mean, you, you see differences between people just based on visual observation, how they're dressed, you know, what they're wearing or how they look with their attitude. And, and again, I say for myself from my own point of view, I'm colorblind when it comes to that. And yet, I'm a very visual person, yet I don't see those gradations of, darker skinned people or very dark people.

00;37;41;12 - 00;38;09;11
Karen Rinaldo
I see people as people. Not everybody sees people as human beings. They see them as different categories. And that's where I feel the education is so important. If families don't have, you know, the family structure or, as you said, the conversation at dinner, if there's a lot of distraction, we never get to the heart, to the root of that problem.

00;38;09;13 - 00;38;19;08
Karen Rinaldo
So I think it's a whole host of things that create that inoculation of, misinformation.

00;38;19;11 - 00;38;50;13
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah. You both have mentioned education. Talia and Karen, you've mentioned education a few times. And so it makes me wonder, what do you think about the current climate we're operating in now with, the banning of books and, curriculum? Is that to perpetuate stereotypes? Do the books that are being banned challenge those stereotypes?

00;38;50;13 - 00;39;04;22
Rev. Will Mebane
And so the dominant culture, predominantly the white dominant culture wants to remove that because they don't want the truth revealed. What do you have to say about this climate in which we find ourselves?

00;39;04;22 - 00;39;35;03
Karen Rinaldo
That's a that's a great question. That's a great question. And I've, I've looked at I've read the, the banned books and I've looked at the list of the continuing banned books or, or or just the things that are discouraged on the landscape of, on that subject. And, I think, you know, it's important to understand where that in order to understand the problem, you have to understand where the problem is generating from.

00;39;35;06 - 00;40;26;00
Karen Rinaldo
And so you almost have to go back to the culprit. What what is it that starts that whole atmosphere? Within that, then, the things that need to be removed or, you know, put in a different category, I think it becomes almost a dangerous thing to remove all of history from the plate. I think it's more important to understand what we have in front of us, because that's educating as well to understand that which is, uncomfortable to, to, accept or not accept, but it helps us to move forward.

00;40;26;02 - 00;40;36;06
Karen Rinaldo
I think it's a it becomes difficult to move forward if we're not looking back at what it was that got us to this point. If that if that makes sense.

00;40;36;08 - 00;40;58;27
Talia Landry
Then why censor? There's no reason to censor anything. And I, I don't agree with taking, you know, certain things down because you're exactly right. We need to learn, you know, and people need to learn so they realize. But it has to be taught the right way, you know? So when you know, when you're teaching these, this material, you have to come with that perception.

00;40;58;27 - 00;41;27;29
Talia Landry
You know, I mean, the only thing I think that should be taken out is like, really just wonky stuff that people just write about things and aren't really factual, like, obviously. But with censoring, there's no reason to censor history because that's what's created society right now. And I think people know society right now needs to change. They know something's wrong, but are they willing to look at it and really fess up to it and you guys brought up, you know, not talking about these certain things at the kitchen table, like, why not?

00;41;27;29 - 00;41;48;05
Talia Landry
Why aren't people doing that? I, you know, coming from a native family like, that's you talk about it because you have to, you know, like there's because that's what literally tried to wipe out our existence. And every single day we have to execute our culture in a way so we don't cease to exist. And so with that, we have to understand racism.

00;41;48;05 - 00;42;07;06
Talia Landry
We have to understand the stereotypes that people perpetuate, and we have to understand the American society, that we have to step in each and every day, or we wouldn't be able to be here and function and be able to take care of the resources that we are. It's our right being, our birthright to have to do. You know, it's our obligation, I should say, to do so.

00;42;07;08 - 00;42;26;24
Talia Landry
It that does worry me. I mean, I do. I know that, you know, at least within some cultures, that they don't like to talk about things because clearly, that's what history has taught within censorship, within education and just society. But why are people talking about it at the kitchen table, I wonder? Now, you know.

00;42;26;26 - 00;43;00;14
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah, I'm going to kick it over to you and you. But Karen, you know, you got have my my mind racing here. So yeah. Great question. So why aren't we having these conversations at the kitchen table? And as you were talking about that, Talia, I was thinking about, you know, you know, what happens around you were saying around the table of, of a native family, you're going to have those conversations because you have to, because as you said earlier, you're dealing with this stuff every day.

00;43;00;14 - 00;43;31;27
Rev. Will Mebane
It's just coming at you. Racism is just coming at you. Macro aggressions, microaggressions are just coming at you constantly. So, you know, you get home and you're around the dinner table and you got to you got to have these conversations. Otherwise you're going to go crazy, right? Literally. It's what it made me think about another subject that's in the news right now, and that is the, the killing of Amir Locke over in, in Minnesota.

00;43;31;29 - 00;44;12;19
Rev. Will Mebane
And, this is the case of the officers going in with a no knock warrant. And within, I've heard 10s nine seconds, seven seconds. But very quickly shooting and killing this, 22 year old black man. I wonder, and this is a question, really, for our audience, for those of you listening in on the conversation, on this conversation, I want I want you to be honest and ask yourselves, how many conversations have you had around your table about Amir Locke since this happened?

00;44;12;21 - 00;44;45;17
Rev. Will Mebane
I can tell you that, around practically every black table, kitchen table, in every living room, dining room, wherever black folks are talking about it, we're talking about it for lots of reasons. But I wonder how many white folks are having a conversations about what happened with Amir Locke. So I'm sure some are. But that is that, again, a perpetuate perpetuation of a stereotype.

00;44;45;19 - 00;44;59;24
Rev. Will Mebane
Well, he had it coming to him. And if if he wasn't guilty of this, he was probably guilty of something else anyway. So, you know, so I just put that question out there and toss it to you, and you.

00;44;59;27 - 00;45;43;13
Onjalé Scott Price
Well, I think that, we should give our audience a break to really think about that question. And when we come back, we'll be have we'll be hearing from the people on the street answering our second question, how do we address the issues of racial stereotypes? So let's hear from people on the street. But maybe, maybe pause this first and think about that question that remedies posed.

00;45;43;16 - 00;46;06;23
Sheri White
Yeah. So I think, you know, the first way to address it is that we have to understand, you know, kind of where it's coming from and the implicit, implicit biases that are leading to those stereotypes and leading those actions. And so that takes a lot of work on our side, for us to look within ourselves and try to understand why we see people certain ways and how maybe we can change the way we're viewing people.

00;46;06;26 - 00;46;34;19
Sheri White
I think we need policies as well to help do that, but that's not always enough. I mean, I think currently, you know, there's this, incident going on with the National Football League, the National Football League, where they've attempted to address some of the, injustices and hiring practices that we've seen and had coaching and other staff, by requiring the teams to interview people of color when they're, hiring these positions.

00;46;34;19 - 00;46;54;22
Sheri White
And, and that's a great idea. And that helps ensure that people are getting opportunities. But if the people that are making those hires aren't really working on themselves to understand their implicit biases and how that affects who they're hiring, it's not always going to come out, as the kind of change enacted that we'd like to see.

00;46;54;24 - 00;46;55;29
Sheri White
Which has led to.

00;46;56;02 - 00;47;26;19
Sheri White
To this case of, Brian Flores against the NFL. So we need to change our policies to make sure everybody has opportunities to succeed. And then we also need to look within ourselves and make sure that when we're in positions of power to hire people or pull people in to do things that we're really trying to consider people as people and, not making assumptions of how well they might do in a position based on their gender, their their color, their religion or, or qualities like that.

00;47;26;21 - 00;47;57;28
Chandler Alves
One great way to to kind of counteract stereotype oops, is to learn about your bias, not only learning that you have a bias that's unintentional, where it might have racist ideas of cultures and different people from different backgrounds than yourself. That you might use to jump to conclusions about people checking your bias by stopping and thinking, does this idea in my head have any merit?

00;47;57;28 - 00;48;23;08
Chandler Alves
Where does this idea come from? Before I speak to this person, it's unintentional. And and we know that most of the time when we're using these biases from stereotypes, we've heard, that we don't mean to be harmful, but we have to stop and think, why am I saying this? Is there any merit or am I making an assumption about this person just because of the way that they look?

00;48;23;10 - 00;48;56;13
Sandra Faiman Silva
Well, as a professor, I talked about stereotypes in many of my courses, and I sometimes are often used an example of, Canada and Canadian hockey players. And I explained, I asked the students, is, being good at hockey? An innate attribute is is something that's innate to Canadians uniquely, and is that why so many Canadians are excellent hockey players?

00;48;56;16 - 00;49;41;24
Sandra Faiman Silva
And the students immediately realized that that was rather absurd and that, no, it was because Canada's a country that has a lot of snow. It's a cold country. There are a lot of opportunities to learn hockey and to ice skate. And it really has nothing to do with innate ness. Essentially, again, it's, it's something that's learned and we can apply that same way of thinking to other people, to assume that just because they're good at something or a lot of people, are good or have certain attributes that those are innate.

00;49;41;26 - 00;49;57;08
Sandra Faiman Silva
Again, it's rooted in stereotypes and, and the tendency for people to, categorize groups in ways that are easy to understand and familiar to them. And I do urge people to avoid.

00;49;57;08 - 00;49;58;24
Sandra Faiman Silva
Stereotyping.

00;49;58;26 - 00;50;15;11
Sandra Faiman Silva
And to really look at people in much more complex ways. Otherwise you demean people, you dehumanize them, and you don't really get to know them as, as human beings.

00;50;15;13 - 00;50;36;03
Onjalé Scott Price
So we've just heard from our people on the street answering the question, how do we address the issues of racial stereotypes? So I'd like to open it up to the panel, to either comment on anything they heard or to add your own thoughts on. Okay, we've discussed at length the the issues of stereotypes and how they perpetuate racism.

00;50;36;05 - 00;50;38;28
Onjalé Scott Price
What do we do about it?

00;50;39;00 - 00;51;15;01
Karen Rinaldo
So we know that stereotypes exist. We know that people have biased feelings, about other people. And, you know, there's an element to that says you don't discuss sex, religion and politics, not at the dinner table, not in a business setting. Because it just it's an inflammatory all three are inflammatory subjects. But again, you know, if you're not able to have the conversation at the dinner table in a familiar surrounding, where in the world are you going to have that conversation?

00;51;15;01 - 00;51;54;11
Karen Rinaldo
And so it's not starting there, and you're afraid to have it in a public forum. You're never going again. To the heart of the issue. So, whether you have familiarity with the subject, on a personal level, whether you are or a family member is, I'm not sure if that generates a greater empathy or sympathy or understanding of, but I think it comes down to how one treats another person with respect and the dignity that human beings deserve.

00;51;54;13 - 00;52;19;23
Karen Rinaldo
And, if that has to be a, a learned, quality, it's kind of sad to think that it does. I would hope that it's that is an innate quality. But if it isn't an innate quality and it has to be treated in a, in a learned, teaching environment, then again, it goes to education. And I don't mean to be profound in comments.

00;52;19;24 - 00;53;15;06
Karen Rinaldo
I don't. And as you said, I don't think you can ever go too deep or be too profound. I think. And I get very emotional about, race and, groups. And because I just see people as people and as simplistic as that may sound, it really goes to the heart of how we treat brotherhood. What is brotherhood if it isn't accepting and and allowing people to prosper and, and live out their lives and happiness, to be able to work, to be able to have family life, to be able to run a business, without constraints and without those, parameters of, of bias feelings, you know, I think comes down to how we treat

00;53;15;09 - 00;53;32;18
Karen Rinaldo
each other as people, not as separations or segregated communities or or personalities or figures with people. And we deserve that dignity and respect.

00;53;32;20 - 00;54;01;10
Onjalé Scott Price
So I definitely hear you, Karen and I. I wholeheartedly agree we need to treat people as people. I, I do feel like though, it's important to take someone's ethnicity or their color, as you could say, into consideration when talking to people. And I'll use I'll use Talia as an example, because Talia came on the show last time and blew our minds by reminding us that Native Americans, indigenous people, are here year round.

00;54;01;10 - 00;54;20;03
Onjalé Scott Price
We can talk to them in any time other than November when we think about them for Thanksgiving and and me and we talk about that all the time and just how how important it was for us to hear that. But by looking at Talia and recognizing that she's an indigenous person, it makes me realize that she's going to have a different story than I am.

00;54;20;05 - 00;54;48;16
Onjalé Scott Price
So even if I do think of Talia and everybody as a person, and I want to treat everyone equally, but I think it's important to consider that the way that they look means that other people have treated them differently. And so they're going to when I go into their space or to have conversation with them or anything like that, I need to consider what, what their perspectives might be based on how they've been treated by other people based on how they look.

00;54;48;19 - 00;55;11;15
Onjalé Scott Price
So I totally understand the idea of being colorblind. And I think that, in a moral sense is a really good way to be is just if you are a human, I'm going to treat you as a human. But I think taking into account the way someone looks is not to think of, not to be stereotypical and say, okay, because Talia is a native person XYZ.

00;55;11;17 - 00;55;29;08
Onjalé Scott Price
But to say, I recognize that Talia is an indigenous and actually maybe she would prefer to be call indigenous than native. So maybe that's something that I should consider asking her. Just keeping in mind those kinds of things I think are really important when when talking to people of different, different colors or different hues.

00;55;29;11 - 00;55;59;00
Talia Landry
Yeah, I think to the point to though is that's where the respect comes in, you know. So that's the way that we consider, you know, the way that someone's look or their race or ethnicity is that that respect point. As long as we keep that respect within that and the way that we we speak to people in the way that we encounter people and not perpetuate the stereotype and like, legit, what she was just saying is respect each other, you know, respect our stories, respect each other's persons.

00;55;59;03 - 00;56;19;11
Talia Landry
All of that, our history and who we are, you know, and stop bringing that prejudgment like it's that, you know, colonizer mentality of having the superior of your being, of thinking that we have the entitlement to judge people in any sort of way. They're based off the way that they look or just who they are as a person, based off of what we hear from them.

00;56;19;17 - 00;56;42;21
Talia Landry
That's an entitlement that we carry within ourselves. Why do we care? Why do some people carry that? You know, and looking at that and really just if people recognize that and say, just try to prioritize respecting each other, respecting someone else is also respecting you and remembering that you don't have to compare yourself to respect each other. You know or respect yourself.

00;56;42;22 - 00;57;04;19
Talia Landry
You don't have to compare to respect yourself, you know? So it's that whole respect and trying to hear one another out and learn things for what they are and not putting up that, that imagery as well, not perpetuating that imagery, not teaching the constant stereotype. And when we look at history, we look at it for what it is and look at both counts of every sides of every story.

00;57;04;21 - 00;57;12;28
Talia Landry
And not just this, you know, narrative that keeps on this persona of what society wants it to be.

00;57;13;00 - 00;57;34;27
Onjalé Scott Price
I think it was. Chandler also made a really good point along those lines of she said, when we have wood stereotypes, we think of them. We should challenge them. It's like, what is this? What is this idea based on? Is this based on something that I've heard, something that I've seen, something that I've been told, you know, or or is this a stereotype that our all stereotypes have to come from somewhere?

00;57;35;03 - 00;58;01;23
Onjalé Scott Price
But where is this coming from? And challenge that and challenge where that comes from. So if you realize that you're getting stereotypes from from media, I'll go back to the example of, the young Asian man who who I went to college with. It's like when I start paying attention in movies, almost always the computer science nerd. The person in the movie is almost always Asian, and I've I've started to notice that people on social media are recognizing this as well.

00;58;02;00 - 00;58;24;18
Onjalé Scott Price
And so now when I see an Asian person and I think, oh, I wonder if that's a computer science major? Oh, Angie, why did you think that? Don't think that. And then think about where I, where I think I got that from and try to make sure that I'm, I'm changing that mentality. And I'm not perpetuating stereotypes by then asking the student, oh, are you the computer science major in the group of students?

00;58;24;20 - 00;58;27;09
Onjalé Scott Price
What do you think of?

00;58;27;11 - 00;58;57;02
Rev. Will Mebane
Don't ask me that. I'm thinking so many things. Oh gosh, oh my gosh, this is good stuff. This is really good stuff. You know, so a couple things, So it is about relationships, right? We've been talking about that, yes. If we get to know people, different from ourselves, we began to discover that, there are fewer differences.

00;58;57;05 - 00;59;22;14
Rev. Will Mebane
And more things, that make us alike. But I want to I want to share a personal thing here. So I just reconnected, in the last 4 or 5 months with a former classmate. And we haven't been in touch in 50 years. 50 years. And and we were friendly towards one another when we were in high school.

00;59;22;16 - 01;00;05;13
Rev. Will Mebane
But, you know, she shared with me that, her father was a racist. And so she would not allow herself to cross the line to really getting to know me because she was intimidated by her father. She wanted to be respectful of her father. And that reminded me that so many times when I was in that period of desegregation in the South, and I would get invited to the homes of, of white kids in, in high school, and their parents would come out every once in a while and I would be the only black person there.

01;00;05;13 - 01;00;25;16
Rev. Will Mebane
And they say, oh, really? You're just you're you're not like the rest of them. I was like, we. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm I'm just like, just like the other black kids in the school. Oh. But you're, you're you're so different. And what I realize is what they were saying is, we've gotten to know you a little bit.

01;00;25;16 - 01;00;43;24
Rev. Will Mebane
And so now we have a relationship with you. And so we see that we have more in common than than or different your interests or the same interests that my son has or my daughter has. Right. But I want to go back to you. And you, we may have to do another show on this. You. Because you you opened my.

01;00;43;24 - 01;01;05;24
Rev. Will Mebane
I might be opening a can of worms. But you open the can, so I'm just going to break it up a little bit more. I will go back to, to to Karen because, you know, your comments about being colorblind. I hear that as as sincere from you. And I believe that is a philosophy and a way of being to which you are committed.

01;01;05;27 - 01;01;41;26
Rev. Will Mebane
But what I want to say, Karen, is that if you don't see me as black, you're not seeing me because I'm black and because I'm black, I have a different experience in the world than a white person has. So yes, the goal is to not to be controlled by stereotypes or control by, these negative things around race and racism.

01;01;41;28 - 01;02;08;23
Rev. Will Mebane
But there is there is some authenticity to, someone saying, I recognize your blackness, and I recognize that you've had a journey that is so different from my own as a white person, and that you're still going through it. And I want to be an accomplice with you in helping to, eradicate the racism in the,

01;02;08;25 - 01;02;35;11
Rev. Will Mebane
You know, in society. And then I'll say this and, you know, I love what the person who's on the street had to say, Sherry and Chandler and saying, Sandy and, you know, and they all talked about, that transformation comes from within. We can have all the policies in the world. We can have all the laws in the world.

01;02;35;13 - 01;03;05;00
Rev. Will Mebane
But if the transformation has not occurred within our hearts, we're going to continue to perpetuate the racism. We're going to continue to perpetuate the stereotypes that are there. So we need laws. We need policies, but we also need to change people's hearts, not just their minds, but change people's hearts. And that's the work in which I'm involved as a priest.

01;03;05;03 - 01;03;12;19
Rev. Will Mebane
In the Christian tradition, to try to get people to change their hearts. So.

01;03;12;21 - 01;03;40;24
Onjalé Scott Price
I think we need to encourage people to have these conversations around the kitchen table. As we said, that that should be your most comfortable place is within your home or the home of someone in your family or a close friend. If you're in someone's home having dinner, I'd like to think that you were in a comfortable place. And if you are unable to have difficult conversations in that comfortable place, I can't imagine that you could have those conversations in public.

01;03;40;26 - 01;04;08;23
Onjalé Scott Price
And those conversations, they have to start somewhere. And so that's one thing that we really hope to do with this show is to start these conversations. We have them amongst ourselves, and we hope that our viewers have them amongst themselves and and have conversations with that racist uncle, kind of like we we were talking off-camera about how it seems like everyone now knows or is related to a person from the LGBTQ community, and so that that bridges that gap.

01;04;08;23 - 01;04;28;04
Onjalé Scott Price
I feel like a lot of us have that racist uncle that we all know. You just you just don't talk to them. You just don't invite them into the conversation. But that's what we need to do is we need to talk to those people because they're perpetuating the stereotypes and perpetuating the racism. And sometimes maybe we are too, and don't realize it, just like we did with Charlie on the show the first time.

01;04;28;06 - 01;04;39;27
Onjalé Scott Price
And we didn't realize we were doing it until she told us that we were doing it. And now we know. We recognize that we had internalized that and we need to do better.

01;04;40;00 - 01;05;02;26
Talia Landry
So I think that's a big part within, you know, the change of it all too, you know, but with everything, it's why do we always feel like we need to relate to accept each other? You know, we can we can accept each other with not being able to relate because, I mean, at I can do that. I, you know, most of, I think a lot of tribal people have to do that.

01;05;02;26 - 01;05;32;02
Talia Landry
You know, like you, you don't understand the way things, the way that people think sometimes. But you accept that for what it is and you understand it and you move on like you, you surround your world, in your life the way that you want to. And if we all want to have a better and more unified life, then we'll want to stop doing this and stop comparing each other and stop trying to think that we need to relate or be similar in order to respect each other and listen.

01;05;32;08 - 01;05;57;16
Talia Landry
Because I think a big part of, you know, breaking down this racism is listening because, you know, a white person necessarily is not going to understand a native black, Hispanic, Asian person's like, because they don't come from that culture. And we might be able to tell them stories, we might be able to get them to realize some things, but something in them might not make that trigger when the same thing goes vice versa.

01;05;57;16 - 01;06;18;15
Talia Landry
With the within, you know, white culture and other other cultures, like there'll be certain things that we won't be able to grasp because that's just not the way that we've learned or the way that we are as people. So as long as we can let go of the fact that we're all, you know, we're different, but we're the same, and there's nothing wrong with it.

01;06;18;17 - 01;06;19;01
Talia Landry
You know.

01;06;19;05 - 01;06;39;23
Onjalé Scott Price
I think, yeah, you're absolutely right. We we should not have to relate to people for for them to matter. Like you said, just treat everybody, whether you know them or not, whether you can relate to them or not, whether they look like you or not. Treat people with respect and treat people honestly. And that's how we're going to do better.

01;06;39;25 - 01;06;41;18
Karen Rinaldo
Yeah.

01;06;41;20 - 01;07;05;15
Onjalé Scott Price
Well, this has been a really awesome conversation. I really want to thank you, Karen, for coming in and sharing your perspective, and Talya for coming in and and dropping your wisdom, as always, Rev, always a pleasure. Love seeing your face. Looking forward to a hug sometime soon. So until the next episode of The conversation, we thank you all for joining us.

01;07;05;15 - 01;07;10;14
Onjalé Scott Price
And who knows, maybe we'll have you on the show next time. Take care.

01;07;10;17 - 01;07;21;00
Talia Landry
It's kind of a.