00;00;12;03 - 00;00;30;26
Onjalé Scott Price

00;00;30;28 - 00;01;00;06
Onjalé Scott Price
Oh! Welcome back, Falmouth and other watchers to the next episode of the conversation with my wonderful friend in person, Reverend Will Mebane, my co-host and faithful friend. Through it all. This week. This month, we are talking about racism and affordable housing. So if you are in Falmouth, you know that we are at. Or you could consider us beyond an affordable housing crisis.

00;01;00;09 - 00;01;23;21
Onjalé Scott Price
And there's many reasons for that crisis. And unfortunately, I think that, a bit of racism has to do with some of our crisis. I think that there are people who maybe you're not coming to Falmouth who could come to Falmouth, because they're just not comfortable here. I know people who have been in Falmouth and have decided to leave town because of their experiences.

00;01;23;24 - 00;01;50;23
Onjalé Scott Price
And so we're going to be touching about touching on a little bit of all of that, I believe, and also discussing how we might be able to to mitigate some of these issues. So we'll jump right in with our first question. For our people on the street of how does racism exacerbate our affordable housing crisis? So let's see what the people on the street have to say and get started in our conversation.

00;01;50;25 - 00;02;18;03
Bobbi Richards
I think it also, racism also affects the affordable housing crisis in that people have to feel safe where they live. And safety is not just a physical issue, it's also a comfort level. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of people of color on the waiting list. And so the larger question is why aren't people even applying? So when I think about the affordable housing crisis, I don't just think about it in terms of lack of units, which I know is a popular conversation.

00;02;18;06 - 00;02;46;28
Bobbi Richards
I look at it as in terms of why do people of color not feel safe to apply for housing in Falmouth? What is it about living in Falmouth that they are not comfortable even getting themselves on to waiting lists that they're otherwise eligible for? And so if I were a person looking to live in Falmouth, it would give me reason for pause, because affordability is one thing, but comfortability is also another.

00;02;46;28 - 00;03;03;07
Bobbi Richards
And I want to be able to raise my children here. I want to be able to go to the grocery store here. I want to be able to go to work and not feel as though I'm in other. And as a director, I have felt othered here. So how can I expect that others that look like me would feel comfortable coming here?

00;03;03;07 - 00;03;15;25
Bobbi Richards
So for me, it's a much broader conversation than just race. But certainly Falmouth has a lot of challenges in terms of race and leadership and positions that the community can see.

00;03;15;28 - 00;03;45;00
Jordan Frye
I think it's actually I think it's interesting that we're so discouraged from talking about class. And I think it's really interesting that, it's interesting that we're we're finally at a place where we're talking about racism, but we're still really not talking about classism. And I think in Falmouth, interestingly. So I'm from New York City, and I find classism in New York City was much harder for me to see because racism is so apparent.

00;03;45;02 - 00;04;06;20
Jordan Frye
And because in New York City, for the most part, the lines of race follow the lines of class. But in a place like Falmouth, where there is so little racial diversity, classism becomes a lot more apparent, because then you're because then you're really seeing the economic differences between white people.

00;04;06;23 - 00;04;28;02
Bobbi Richards
And how is it that our employment has to be brought in? Because really, we can't afford to house the people that are available to work in this community. So I see the crisis in more than one way. And it's for me, it's not just race based, but race in Falmouth is definitely a conversation that has to be had, by more than people of color.

00;04;28;05 - 00;04;40;00
Bobbi Richards
It has to be a conversation that people are feel safe to voice their opinions and, and work towards diversifying a community that relies on a diverse workforce to keep it in business.

00;04;40;02 - 00;05;12;29
Jordan Frye
And diversity is a really interesting word. And it's become in this day and age, it's a really hot button word. And I think that it often people assume it means color diversity. And I think in affordable housing it's really important to talk about economic diversity, which then of course, within that affects you can talk about the like color breakdown of that, which is a much bigger conversation that is influenced by our nation's history and the whole rest of the nation, but especially in Falmouth, it's really important to talk about economic diversity.

00;05;13;02 - 00;05;32;15
Onjalé Scott Price
What we've just heard from our people on the street answering the first question, how does racism exacerbate our affordable housing crisis? I thought it was really interesting that Bobby mentioned it's not just the lack of housing, it's the lack of different people applying for housing as well. I thought that was a very interesting point to be made.

00;05;32;15 - 00;05;51;15
Onjalé Scott Price
It kind of speaks to what I was saying in the opening about, you know, what are the barriers that people of color are potentially facing and even applying for affordable housing. And so, Tara, I'd like to open it up for some comments from you about that. Tara Vargas Wallace is the founder and CEO of amplify POC Cape Cod.

00;05;51;18 - 00;06;11;14
Onjalé Scott Price
You also serve on the board of Housing Assistance Corporation, or HAC, the NAACP, Cape Cod Branch, Massachusetts Women of Color Coalition, MLK Junior Action Team, and People Against Trafficking Humans. I'm sure you do a lot of the things that I welcome. Welcome to the show.

00;06;11;16 - 00;06;20;22
Tara Vargas Wallace
Thank you. So nice to be here. Thank you for having us. Yeah, I agree, you know, comfortability I think was what really stood out to me.

00;06;20;25 - 00;06;41;27
Tara Vargas Wallace
I think Bobby, it was Bobby that mentioned that, and that's so true. You know, it has a lot to do with safety. If we don't feel comfortable in our own homes or our neighborhood or communities, then we're not safe. And that's such a huge aspect of all of this. I think it's really also important to mention, and I'm sure we'll go into this a little bit more.

00;06;41;27 - 00;06;58;03
Tara Vargas Wallace
So I don't want to go to too deep into it now, but, the history, right, of, of systemic racism in housing and, you know, the foundation that has been laid for us to build or not build on.

00;06;58;05 - 00;07;08;00
Onjalé Scott Price
Absolutely. I started reading the book The Color of Law that really talks about that history and admittedly, working, trying to bring more affordable housing to families.

00;07;08;00 - 00;07;30;25
Onjalé Scott Price
I've had to put the book down a few times because it was just so frustrating reading the history. And it's not like it's really, really old history. Like we like to think of. It's relatively new history and we're still seeing the effects of that history. And if we don't work to change our zoning laws and our, loan practices, like we are going to continue seeing those disparities in our community.

00;07;30;28 - 00;07;55;05
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah. So, Wendy, I'd like to welcome you to say a few words. Wendy is the president and CEO of habitat for Humanity Cape Cod since January 2020 and previously the resource director since 2013. So I understand that means that you worked with the community and fundraising and worked with the families. And so now as executive director, you have a lot of experience and skills in the affordable housing arena.

00;07;55;05 - 00;07;56;16
Onjalé Scott Price
So welcome to the show.

00;07;56;18 - 00;08;22;17
Wendy Cullinan
Thank you. Thanks so much for having me I appreciate it. Obviously I'm not going to be as well versed in this topic. As, as probably I would hope to be for this. My, my focus really since being with habitat has been fundraising, and representing this organization. Our message has always been, that we build for those of all faiths, all race, those of or of no faith.

00;08;22;17 - 00;08;45;28
Wendy Cullinan
And that's really important that we're inclusive. We want to be seen as being inclusive. We are a Christian based, charity. But like I said, we will build for for all faiths or no faith. And we've been criticized by that. Moneys have been withheld. Recently I was denied a grant, for that reason. It is for, you know, it was a for solo program.

00;08;45;28 - 00;09;11;17
Wendy Cullinan
You know, we're trying to do the best we can to make our homes affordable for all of our families. But it's got to be it's got to be tough on Cape Cod for young families. And young families of color, I know are even more challenged and, you know, we'll fight that battle right along next to, I can say one thing we do is we we do assign just a number to our applicants.

00;09;11;17 - 00;09;41;20
Wendy Cullinan
So when they move through the process, they aren't judged for being a person of color or a minority. For the 68 applications we received, for the six homes that we're building in Falmouth currently, we received, I think 22% were, minority applicants, which which is kind of typical. But that represented Falmouth. And two of the six families are minorities that will be building, which is 33%.

00;09;41;20 - 00;10;04;23
Wendy Cullinan
It doesn't sound like a lot when you say two, but, I never thought of, until I, you know, listen to your people on the street. I never really thought about people not being comfortable applying for a habitat home, you know? Makes me stop and think, because I. I haven't thought about that. And I we want everyone to apply, aren't we?

00;10;04;24 - 00;10;25;02
Wendy Cullinan
We put so much effort into our outreach, trying to get to every community to get our applicants, just to stand on that fairness of it. To be fair. But, yeah, it's. Yeah. Falmouth is, we found is a great place to live. Families should be a great place for everyone to live.

00;10;25;05 - 00;10;47;28
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. I do love Falmouth. It's why I live here. That's why I ran for office here now. Because I want to support the town that I love. But it doesn't mean that we're we're perfect. Doesn't mean that that we have work to do. And I do think it's great that habitat does that. Blind process, so to say, that's something that I can woods hole, we've talked about quite a bit about doing that.

00;10;47;28 - 00;11;03;13
Onjalé Scott Price
When we have people apply for jobs and internships and, taking out that piece that identifies people. And I think, you know, it could be a catch 22, but I know with with habitat homes, you all require people to have a mortgage before they apply for a home.

00;11;03;16 - 00;11;28;29
Wendy Cullinan
And that so they don't have to they don't they don't have a mortgage before they apply. But once they apply, we, we we help them apply. We get their financials together for them so they're ready to apply, but we assist them in applying for a USDA low interest mortgage. We do hold some mortgages ourself. We're kind of gotten away from being in the mortgage business.

00;11;28;29 - 00;11;48;04
Wendy Cullinan
But if we had a family who qualified, through our process to build with us, to partner with us and for some reason, USDA, declined them, we habitat can hold the mortgage ourselves and we have done that. So we will hold the mortgage.

00;11;48;06 - 00;12;07;29
Onjalé Scott Price
Okay. Well, that's that's fantastic. I was thinking that that was a that might have been a barrier for people is that if they couldn't get a traditional mortgage, you know, which we know discrimination and everything happens. But that's really good to know that that that is that option through habitat. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. All right Rev, you've been sitting there for a while thinking that.

00;12;08;01 - 00;12;37;27
Rev. Will Mebane
No I would thank you. Thank you. And, welcome, Tara and Wendy, I'm glad to have you both with us today. So I was going to pick up on that last bit that Wendy was talking about regarding mortgages. And you, you put on the table, because we know about redlining and the banking industry, and we know that people were often denied loans, because of the color of their skin.

00;12;37;27 - 00;13;00;29
Rev. Will Mebane
And, and so the buying process, certainly helps to alleviate that, but I I'll ask Wendy. So after they've been chosen, a family of individuals who been chosen, they still have to get a mortgage. Is the potential there still that, they could be denied because of racism or or not?

00;13;01;02 - 00;13;24;09
Wendy Cullinan
I haven't I haven't seen that at all. And I've never heard that that has happened. Once a family qualifies for habitat home, they can only be selected for a few reasons. And one of them is never been not being able to secure a mortgage because, in habitat tradition, habitat always held mortgage that was part of it.

00;13;24;09 - 00;14;00;28
Wendy Cullinan
And that goes back to its roots where, you know, a no interest loan was made to a family to partner with them to build a home, and they would pay back directly to habitat. What using USDA was. So at some point before my time, habitat for Humanity International allowed affiliates to start working with families to secure the USDA mortgage, and that has helped us increase our capacity tenfold, because now the family purchases the home.

00;14;01;01 - 00;14;21;29
Wendy Cullinan
We roll that directly into the next build. So we used to build 1 or 2 homes per year. And a few things have helped us get to where we are now when we're building 810, 12 homes a year. Right now we're working with 15 families. And one of those things that helped us increase our capacity was, using the USDA mortgages.

00;14;21;29 - 00;14;28;29
Wendy Cullinan
The other thing where our restores, we have two restores that are funding our program at a very high level.

00;14;29;02 - 00;14;30;08
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah.

00;14;30;10 - 00;15;09;10
Rev. Will Mebane
You know, I want to go back to that question or the the comment that Bobby made in the, on the street portion. I think, Tara, you you alluded to this as well, that whole issue of comfortability, you know, people don't understand if you're not a person of color, maybe it's hard for you to relate to this, but you know, when when you are the only one in the only person of color in a situation, that can be very uncomfortable.

00;15;09;13 - 00;15;33;21
Rev. Will Mebane
And I have spent my entire life I'm very old. I have spent my entire life being the only one. The only one, even here at Saint Barnabas is, the Episcopal Church. You know, I can literally count on one hand the number of people of color that we have that attend the church here. Right? So I think there's a need.

00;15;33;21 - 00;16;09;29
Rev. Will Mebane
And, Tara, I would love to hear what you think about this, that there's a need for there to be sensitivity. I guess. I we use that word. There needs to be more sensitivity around the comfortability factor. Right? That is not just the process is not just the, access and being able to check all the boxes, but this whole thing of just being comfortable in a place to the point that you're willing to put your name, you put your name on a list, right to be be considered.

00;16;10;05 - 00;16;12;28
Rev. Will Mebane
What other thoughts do you have about that?

00;16;13;00 - 00;16;33;28
Tara Vargas Wallace
Yeah, I, I you know, my first thought, I go, I think about the cultural, aspect of it, you know, and, and and how welcoming are these communities? You know, I don't live in Falmouth. But, you know, I've, I've worked in Falmouth. You work for independence House and run the, the, Falmouth office, a few years ago.

00;16;33;28 - 00;16;42;15
Tara Vargas Wallace
And, you know, it is it's a great it's a wonderful community, but it is very, white, so to say, and.

00;16;42;16 - 00;16;44;24
Rev. Will Mebane
Sort of not, not so to say it. Yeah.

00;16;44;24 - 00;17;07;03
Tara Vargas Wallace
It, it is it, it absolutely. I feel that way about Cape Cod. You know, I'm a Puerto Rican woman married to a black man with three promising black children. So, comfortability is not something that we often feel and and oftentimes, you know, it has a lot to do with how we are, welcomed into a group setting, how we are perceived.

00;17;07;05 - 00;17;41;26
Tara Vargas Wallace
And often times, you know, we're disregarded and, dismissed in, in, conversations, and, in positions, as, you know, even even with employment, and within our own communities. So, you know, in terms of housing, if we're talking about, you know, comfortability, in housing, in a place like Cape Cod, Falmouth, you know, how safe are we if we're if we're not comfortable around our neighbors.

00;17;41;26 - 00;18;10;16
Tara Vargas Wallace
Right. And and that really speaks volumes. In terms of work, you know, whether or not people are applying, people of color are applying for these, these housing opportunities. On the other thing too, is, you know, how difficult is the application process? And or do you have outreach workers and are are these, being advertised in places where people of color are at?

00;18;10;19 - 00;18;30;07
Tara Vargas Wallace
You know, I think that's another thing is really thinking outside the box and, and reaching people where they are. And, and I think it was, someone mentioned in the, in the video as well, you know, about outreach and, and, and thinking outside of the box and doing things, other than just your, your typical marketing strategies.

00;18;30;07 - 00;18;43;19
Tara Vargas Wallace
So I think that plays a huge factor in it. And, welcoming other communities into, your community. And I think that that's really huge.

00;18;43;21 - 00;19;07;26
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah. Bobby, we talked about you need to feel safe. I mean, something as basic as that, right? Again, not something most white folks have to think about. And, is this a safe community for me. Is this a safe neighborhood for me. Is this a safe street for me right now. Is this a safe.

00;19;07;26 - 00;19;08;17
Tara Vargas Wallace
Store.

00;19;08;21 - 00;19;30;28
Rev. Will Mebane
Door for me to go in. Right. And so I mean, is that that safety issue is, if not top of mind, always present in the back of the mind for any, any person, person of color. So, Andre, you've done a lot of work, a lot of work in affordable housing, trying to make it happen, here in Falmouth.

00;19;31;04 - 00;19;49;03
Rev. Will Mebane
So I know this is a subject that's near and dear to to your heart. What what can you share with us about the what your experience has been, what you're seeing, and you know what the challenges are, around affordable housing in in Falmouth in the Upper Cape.

00;19;49;05 - 00;20;08;27
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah. Where to start? So, the story that I've told at one of our listening events that we had actually at Saint Barnabas a few years ago now, about how my husband and I, came here for the fall before we moved here full time. He was long story short, he was on a grant. They were paying for us to be up here for a few months.

00;20;08;29 - 00;20;27;26
Onjalé Scott Price
We found a place to live and he spoke to this woman on the phone. What seemed like hours. Nice old lady. Just wanted to know all about his science and where he was from, and just thought it was so cool that she's going to have a scientist living in her house and all these things. And and then we showed up to look at the house, and then the next day she said, oh, I'm so sorry.

00;20;27;26 - 00;21;02;03
Onjalé Scott Price
The house is no longer for rent. And we're like, oh, man, that sucks. And then the next day we go back on the same housing site and the same place is listed again for the same dates, for the same price. So I have personally experienced the difficulty in finding affordable housing on the Cape because I am black, like there is no new information that she had about us, except for now what we looked like and we we have since seen this person in the grocery store and they did everything they could to like, almost broke their neck to avoid us.

00;21;02;03 - 00;21;21;08
Onjalé Scott Price
So, you know, that solidified that. Oh, they they recognized us and that what they had done was wrong. So I know that I'm not the only one who has experience that I know of at least two other black people who have come to Falmouth and thought they found an affordable place to stay. And when they got there, they were no longer welcome to stay there.

00;21;21;11 - 00;21;41;23
Onjalé Scott Price
So that's that's one aspect. Also, when we talk about, affordable housing, we should probably define affordable a little bit so that. Yeah, sorry, I should should've done that earlier. But, affordability is determined usually based on the area median income. And I don't have those numbers in front of me. But we look at the percentage of area median income as affordable.

00;21;41;23 - 00;22;07;28
Onjalé Scott Price
So when we say that there is an affordable housing crisis, that means people who make 30%, 60%, 80%, or even the area median income in some cases can't afford to live here. So that keeps out a lot of people in our community. But it also means that even someone who is can afford 100% area median income with a person of color still has to decide, is this a community that they want to live in?

00;22;07;28 - 00;22;28;21
Onjalé Scott Price
And so I think that also exacerbates the problem, just like you all were just discussing about. If I don't feel comfortable there, even if I can afford it, do I want to be in that community? And unfortunately, I also know people of color who were here and they they had a good job specifically in Woods Hole, and they could afford to live here because of their salary.

00;22;28;21 - 00;22;49;07
Onjalé Scott Price
But they decided this wasn't a comfortable place for them. It wasn't where they wanted to raise their children for various reasons. And so that's why I think that the racism plays into our affordable housing crisis, because it's not just about the people who want to come here and continue to work in our community was about people not wanting to come here at all.

00;22;49;10 - 00;23;19;09
Tara Vargas Wallace
Absolutely. And also, I mean, speaking of affordable housing and and racism, I mean, the whole zoning, the antiquated zoning laws, you know, I mean, that just perpetuates discrimination. I mean, those are from our redlining days. And and it really has an impact, and as you said, in effect, on to what's going on today in housing, right? Because we didn't have these opportunities to build wealth to purchase homes and build wealth.

00;23;19;09 - 00;23;42;04
Tara Vargas Wallace
And so now we're we're sort of held back and, not sort of we are and, you know, these zoning laws are real and they really need to be updated, you know, and I know that we've done we've had some leeway in certain towns, and some of us have, you know, done, done the work. But there's there's still a lot of work to be done in terms of zoning.

00;23;42;06 - 00;23;57;08
Rev. Will Mebane
Not the mention of the sorry, I hear the mention of the zoning laws reminds me of, the other factor when it comes to affordable housing and I believe race is a part of this. And that's the whole, Nimby.

00;23;57;10 - 00;23;58;14
Onjalé Scott Price
Yes.

00;23;58;16 - 00;24;21;15
Rev. Will Mebane
Right. The the situation. Not in my backyard. So people. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, I'm in favor of affordable housing. Yes. We need affordable housing. We have got to have affordable housing. And then someone comes along maybe like habitat for Humanity of Cape Cod and says, okay, so we've got a plot of land, we want to build these houses or whoa, whoa, whoa whoa whoa, but not in my but my backyard.

00;24;21;18 - 00;24;25;08
Rev. Will Mebane
That I see you nodding Wendy. Is that something that you've experienced.

00;24;25;10 - 00;24;52;17
Wendy Cullinan
Yeah. Abso. Absolutely. We have a we own property down in Wellfleet. That we wanted to build three homes on before I started eight years ago. So it's been in litigation ten plus years. And it's it's a campaign by the neighbors to stop us from building there. It's it's they've they've been able to get away with it because, you know, just on a technicality.

00;24;52;18 - 00;25;21;04
Wendy Cullinan
Someone was at a meeting and placed a vote, but they weren't at the other conference. Nothing to stand on. Now, luckily, we have an attorney, that's been on our board, off our board, back on our board. Who does all this work pro-bono for us because we wouldn't be able to afford to fight this battle. They obviously have all the money in the world to fight this battle because they've been doing it for ten plus years, and we were going to build through it, and now we're going to build for and we're going to build them.

00;25;21;04 - 00;25;37;27
Wendy Cullinan
We we know that we're going to eventually win this battle and put four homes there. But yeah, I mean, we can so we can go in and build 40 B. So if the zoning says it's a two acre for, you know, one size home, whatever, we can go in 40 B and that is a bad word, right.

00;25;37;27 - 00;26;16;00
Wendy Cullinan
That's a dirty word for me. I'm trying to make 40 B a beautiful word. 40 B allows us to bring more families homeownership because we can put six homes there. Right. So it's a great thing. But the same people that are probably don't want to people of color also don't want affordable homes. And they will fight us. And we do we do inherit, there are times and we have said no to a piece of property for that very reason, because we felt, it wasn't an appropriate location for an affordable home because we build a small three bedroom or two bedroom ranch.

00;26;16;03 - 00;26;33;06
Wendy Cullinan
And I hadn't been here long, and we have a land strategy group that was meeting and they're like, we're not going to put a habitat home there. So those get to be the poor people and everyone else gets to be the rich people. So we said no to it for that reason. But, you know, people can hide their racism.

00;26;33;06 - 00;26;40;14
Wendy Cullinan
It's really easy, right? Because no one hears the comments they make when they don't want people to at them.

00;26;40;16 - 00;27;06;12
Rev. Will Mebane
This is and I'm going to hand it back to you in the second day. This is something I've been working in affordable housing, are trying to create affordable housing for, I don't know, 30 years, 40 years now. And I started an organization. This is when I was in Connecticut to, called Hope Haven, for the purpose of sort of like habitat for humanity, giving people hope that they could have a haven that was their home.

00;27;06;12 - 00;27;26;22
Rev. Will Mebane
Right. And, oh my gosh, the backlash, the pushback that we got from folks. Because as soon as you say affordable, I believe in the racist mind. What they see and hear is, oh, that's poor black folks. Yes, folks. Hum. Right, right. Angie. Yeah.

00;27;26;23 - 00;27;50;18
Onjalé Scott Price
Yes. That is yes. People immediately say, oh, well, we don't want drugs in our neighborhood. We don't. We don't want that kind of thing in our neighborhood. I'm like, well, first I found already has an opioid issue that we need to be tackling as well. So I'm, sorry, we already have that. And I don't think that adding some houses for people who work in the industry that could potentially help us is, is going to harm us.

00;27;50;20 - 00;28;10;09
Onjalé Scott Price
But yeah. Me stop there. And another term that I heard that I thought was really interesting was banana. So instead of a Nimby banana build, absolutely nothing anywhere near anybody. That's that's the new one that I've heard because now I haven't heard that one. And then we just wasn't getting the point across when we now have banana.

00;28;10;11 - 00;28;29;22
Onjalé Scott Price
But this is this is interesting. This makes me think of what Jordan said, when answering the question on the streets, talking about classism and how classism and racism in some places, like she mentioned, New York City, where she's from, there, they're really pretty tightly aligned. You can tell that those who are considered lower class are generally the black and brown people.

00;28;29;25 - 00;28;43;18
Onjalé Scott Price
And she made a good point about here in Falmouth is we don't have that many black and brown people to begin with. And so some of our affordable housing issue was also a classism issue. So I'll open that up for discussion, because I thought that was a really interesting take on this.

00;28;43;20 - 00;29;11;21
Wendy Cullinan
Yeah. And it does seem like the, the Nimby or the banana is really driven by classism. I mean, it really does seem that way. It's hard to fight, you know, it's it's hard. It's hard to fight. I wish we I wish that were a habitat for humanity in every town on the Cape instead of, you know, so we serve all 15 towns, but, what we do is needed much, much more than we can do.

00;29;11;21 - 00;29;38;00
Wendy Cullinan
It. And fighting these battles along the way with people who don't want us next door to them or don't want any more homes at all on Cape Cod. I can say probably 100% of the people that say that have their own home, right. And they have their front yard and their backyard. Like, you know, I all hear like, why aren't you building, you know, build up and build smaller and get you so density.

00;29;38;00 - 00;29;54;09
Wendy Cullinan
You know what? We need it. We absolutely need it. But what we do is a program that works for us. We know we have an audience that needs it and wants us. Those that that single home ownership, and the people that are against us are the very people that are sitting in their own homes.

00;29;54;11 - 00;29;58;13
Onjalé Scott Price
It's like it's okay for them to have it, but it's other people should know for now.

00;29;58;13 - 00;30;03;21
Wendy Cullinan
It's over now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, should be I, I'm so.

00;30;03;24 - 00;30;06;18
Onjalé Scott Price
Tired. I think I saw you trying to get in on this.

00;30;06;20 - 00;30;22;05
Tara Vargas Wallace
Yeah. No, I'm Wendy definitely touched on what I was going to say a little bit, but, Absolutely. I mean, of course, classism intersects with it, right? Because, I mean, who does it who do the all of these economic challenges for the majority? Who are they? Who do they affect?

00;30;22;05 - 00;30;44;28
Tara Vargas Wallace
They affect black and brown folks. And, you know, all of these I mean, of course, there are, wealthy black and brown folks. There's there's no question, obviously, but, you know, historically speaking, black and brown folks are the most, economically challenged because of all of these harmful systemic policies that were put in place all these years ago.

00;30;45;00 - 00;30;46;04
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah.

00;30;46;07 - 00;30;50;20
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah, yeah. I got to tell you, I.

00;30;50;23 - 00;31;21;17
Rev. Will Mebane
I'd like to hear more. Excuse me, I hear more from you all about the whole classism thing because I'm not sure I agree with what Jordan was saying. Or maybe I didn't quite comprehend what she was saying. You know, I'm always a little cautious when when someone wants to shift the conversation from a conversation about racism to a conversation about classism.

00;31;21;20 - 00;31;52;12
Rev. Will Mebane
And the issue for me is this that, you know, it's very hard most of the time. Not always, but it's very hard, I believe, to look at someone that you might meet in the grocery store or, a barber shop or salon or nail salon or whatever is very difficult to look at that person and tell what class they are in right?

00;31;52;14 - 00;31;57;06
Rev. Will Mebane
That's not so. When you look at someone and you see that they're brown and black.

00;31;57;09 - 00;31;57;21
Wendy Cullinan
Good.

00;31;57;21 - 00;32;22;15
Rev. Will Mebane
Points. And I think, I think sometimes we want to shift to the classism thing because that feels somehow more like we it doesn't give us a kind of feeling that talking about race does. And and one of them, maybe it was maybe it was Jordan or Bobby who talked about how uncomfortable we are talking about race, racism. We just we just don't want to talk about it.

00;32;22;15 - 00;32;35;13
Rev. Will Mebane
So I don't know that. Interested if any of you have any thoughts about that whole shift from let's talk about classism instead of racism, recognizing that they are intertwined in some ways?

00;32;35;15 - 00;32;50;19
Wendy Cullinan
Yeah. Well, your class is easy to change, not easy to change. But, you know, there's a very good chance that you can go from being, you know, a low income to a medium income to, you know, a higher income person. And. Right, of course, you're not changing the color of your skin, but I'm I think you're right.

00;32;50;19 - 00;33;23;26
Wendy Cullinan
I think people do get uncomfortable, talking about racism because it's been talked about without answers, like we haven't come up with, like, what can we do? What's going to work? What's it going to take? And you know, when you when you talk and you want to, you want to kind of throw things out there like, well, there's an idea like, oh, well, you know, scholars can like, write like people that really are, like making it their, their life's work.

00;33;23;29 - 00;33;46;23
Wendy Cullinan
So I don't know, you know, I it is uncomfortable. It should be uncomfortable because it shouldn't it shouldn't drive our society. But it certainly has been, it's been going on for too long. I tried to bring have three children. You want to bring your children up to be kind people not have hate in their life, right?

00;33;46;23 - 00;34;07;03
Wendy Cullinan
So people have different color eyes, different color hair, different color skin. I drilled it into them. I don't know if it was the right thing to do. I don't know if that worked. You hope it does. But you know, my parents didn't do that with me. My my parents were were were racist. I mean, they had bad language.

00;34;07;06 - 00;34;21;26
Wendy Cullinan
That's what I grew up in. I, you know, so do we need it in our schools more? Do we need to? Is it educated? I think it it's I don't yeah I don't of course I don't know the answer.

00;34;21;29 - 00;34;47;27
Tara Vargas Wallace
Going back to the classes, I just want to also say I think I think a lot of people bring up classism when we're talking about racism, because of the whole, you know, a lot of people feel sort of offensive, like, you know, well, I'm not rich, I'm white, but I'm not rich, so I don't have privilege. I didn't, you know, they they they really haven't done the anti-racist work, for themselves to really understand where we're coming from when we talk about classism and racism.

00;34;47;29 - 00;35;11;09
Tara Vargas Wallace
So I feel like that classism is thrown out often when as sort of as a defense mechanism, like, you know, I grew up poor, too, you know, and and we're not we're not saying there aren't poor white people. It's not that's not what we're saying. And so I think I do agree with you. Well, it definitely, it's a different conversation, but I do think that there's a lot of connection.

00;35;11;11 - 00;35;22;12
Tara Vargas Wallace
There there's some interconnection, where it intertwines, to some degree. And there's so many layers to this stuff. Right? I mean, it's just a lot.

00;35;22;14 - 00;35;47;14
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah. Thank you. That, we're going to go to the, second question in a minute. Angie will take us there. But just to stay on this for for another moment, if we can. I so, Wendy, I was I was there at your, kickoff for the, will it way, construction project to build ten homes there in East Falmouth.

00;35;47;17 - 00;36;19;04
Rev. Will Mebane
Angie was there. It was a great night. Great event. Love seeing all those people there. And oh, my gosh, the stories that the homeowners, a soon to be homeowners, told me. And there were lots of tears and, lumps in people's throats, that night, including my own, very just touching. But, I did notice that most of the folks there are white, and maybe that's just a reflection of, again, we're on Cape Cod, so if you're going to go someplace that is going to be mostly white folks.

00;36;19;04 - 00;36;37;27
Rev. Will Mebane
Right. But it made me think about this compatibility, not compatibility comfortability issue again. So I think I saw that you have a, in the first six, there's a black family that is among the group. Right. Did you say there were two?

00;36;37;29 - 00;36;39;20
Wendy Cullinan
Yeah. Two minority families? Yeah.

00;36;39;20 - 00;37;04;06
Rev. Will Mebane
To to two families of color. And just to go back to the comfortability factor, I'm going to give you some advice. So here's some unsolicited advice. All right. So one of the keys is to make sure that those persons of color who are going to be part of that community, they're it will it way or wherever you might construct that they have covering right.

00;37;04;09 - 00;37;33;04
Rev. Will Mebane
That they are comfortable being there with the their neighbors and who I assume they will get to know, during the construction, the build phase and what have you, they'll get to know one another. But it requires a kind of a intentionality that I would urge habitat for Humanity of Cape Cod to to embrace and maybe lead if it's not already within the habitat.

00;37;33;06 - 00;38;01;20
Rev. Will Mebane
The culture to when there is a black family going into a community to think about, what are some other ways we can make this family feel comfortable, in this community and not just the immediate, you know, street or whatever they're on. But outside that and into East Falmouth, all of East Falmouth. What can habitat for humanity do to help those families feel comfortable?

00;38;01;20 - 00;38;24;17
Rev. Will Mebane
Because the research is out there. That shows. And and you alluded to this, that sometimes black and brown folks come to Falmouth and they find it so racist and so difficult, so challenging that they say, forget it, I'm out of here. I don't need this. I'll go someplace else right. You don't want that to happen with your your families.

00;38;24;17 - 00;38;29;20
Rev. Will Mebane
So, I offered that again as some unsolicited advice.

00;38;29;22 - 00;38;51;15
Wendy Cullinan
You know, thank you. And we I mean, we are aware and we do, embrace families that have more challenges. And if it is a black family, the only black family that we're working with, you know, we're aware of it. You might have suggestions from me of what those ways are, other than, you know, so we're rooted.

00;38;51;18 - 00;39;21;23
Wendy Cullinan
I'm not sure that you know the story. I don't know if you know Clarence Jordan Miller follow this habitat. Began when Miller Fuller, who was the founder of habitat, he visited, a farm in America's Georgia, being run by Clarence Jordan. And it was a community farm. And he brought black and white folks together to work together, to farm together, to live together and it was a partnership that they and it Clarence started.

00;39;21;23 - 00;39;48;21
Wendy Cullinan
One thing I hope I can remember how we said this, to Millard Fuller. If I have if my earnings are $15,000 a year and it's just me and my wife and the person living next door, or in $6,000, and they have three children, we should swap incomes. I don't need the 15, you know. So some of that came from that point of view.

00;39;48;23 - 00;40;12;14
Wendy Cullinan
And Miller fellow really was so impressed and moved that they actually hatched the habitat plan. It's not a lot different. And you know, and it works. You see you know, you see 156 homes that were built, the families living. It's provide the income to get a family into their home so they can thrive. And they'll pay you back and they do.

00;40;12;16 - 00;40;41;23
Wendy Cullinan
So we are aware that land that we're building on was farmed by a Cape Verdean family, years and years ago. And one of our donors, it was her grandmother. And, she so one of our programs that you may have heard of at our presentation is having a family partner and she came to me and she said, I want to be a family partner, but I want to be a family partner for a family of color.

00;40;41;26 - 00;41;02;08
Wendy Cullinan
And she is, you know, so there's there's that, that we took into consideration. We typically don't say, well, you're going to be matched with a certain family, but for you know what? That made sense. And that's what she wanted. So, yeah, I mean, I'll take advice. Well, because, you know, we we want to do the right thing.

00;41;02;10 - 00;41;04;08
Wendy Cullinan
Tara has something to say.

00;41;04;10 - 00;41;29;08
Tara Vargas Wallace
Well, one idea would be, you know, connecting these families, these these families of color to barbershops, restaurants, markets that are run and owned by people of color. And a great way, a great resource for them would be amplifies website. We have a directory of businesses owned by people of color. And that leads me to, you know, the comfortability aspect.

00;41;29;08 - 00;41;51;20
Tara Vargas Wallace
Because if, if, if they really if they know that there are these communities within their community, you know, that these services, you know, that that, are a part of their culture, they'll feel more comfortable. And then that's how you get to meet people and really, you know, feel like you're not an only or the only or the other end.

00;41;51;23 - 00;42;12;22
Wendy Cullinan
Yeah. And I think that's important in Falmouth. I think, Falmouth is kind of like its own little island. Right. So people that live in Falmouth tend to really live their lives in Falmouth. I feel like, you know, other towns in the Cape are kind of this town next door, next door, you know, you know, but Falmouth, really, it has everything you need.

00;42;12;22 - 00;42;19;14
Wendy Cullinan
So why leave? But, but I but I say that in Falmouth, so that's good advice. Tara.

00;42;19;16 - 00;42;40;01
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah. Well, I think this is a great segue into our next question, which is what are the mechanisms or ideas to mitigate racism in affordable housing? So. Well, here are people on the street answer that question, and then we'll be back to continue the conversation.

00;42;40;04 - 00;43;08;20
Jordan Frye
I think it comes down to to breaking down people's stereotypes, and I think it comes down to challenging just what people think and the sort of the snap judgments that they have in their head about all of these intersecting issues, about people of color, about people of color living in Falmouth, about what Falmouth is supposed to be like, about affordable housing, about who it is that needs affordable housing.

00;43;08;23 - 00;43;22;00
Jordan Frye
I think the more that we talk about those issues, the more that people are challenged to just think about the more and that means that their relationship to them will become deeper and more complex.

00;43;22;03 - 00;43;43;02
Bobbi Richards
And so I think that as a housing authority especially, we have to make a more concerted effort to make ourselves available, make our list known to the community. That includes not just marketing in a traditional sense, but it also includes, getting out into the community and so that people see the face of the housing authority.

00;43;43;04 - 00;44;07;06
Jordan Frye
I think that we should all be a lot more open about the problems with housing that we're all having, because I think that, again, and I think this is a way of covering up class, but it's considered rude or not rude, but it's considered in poor taste to talk about the fact that you are having a housing issue.

00;44;07;08 - 00;44;39;09
Jordan Frye
And so I think I try to talk about it as much as I can because often I'll come up against the fact that people don't expect someone who looks like me, or acts like me, or talks like me to be having a housing issue, and I am having housing issues. So I think it's important for everyone to be open about that and for that not to be embarrassing or, something we try to cover up that this should be a community conversation about what we're what we're going to do about this problem.

00;44;39;12 - 00;45;03;11
Bobbi Richards
Racism is an interesting conversation when you come to Falmouth, because the the reality is there aren't a lot of people that look like me in positions of government leadership, and that's a concern or should be a concern to everyone in the town of Falmouth. Because if you're looking to have a community that reflects those that live here, Falmouth has a lot of work to do.

00;45;03;13 - 00;45;34;15
Onjalé Scott Price
So we've just heard from our people on the street answering the question, what are the mechanisms or ideas to mitigate racism in affordable housing? And I feel like we started to touch on that a little bit before the break, talking about how to make our our new families or current families feel comfortable in this community. And so, I'd like to ask Tara, you know, you started amplify POC, and I'm wondering if maybe, possibly I could go out on a limb here and say that you started that to build some sort of community or for another reason.

00;45;34;15 - 00;45;36;08
Onjalé Scott Price
Could you tell us a little about that?

00;45;36;10 - 00;46;05;17
Tara Vargas Wallace
Sure, sure. Yeah. So amplify, you know, it was it was initially started to be a black owned list, of businesses owned by black folks. And this was started because people in my community had reached out saying, you know, that they wanted to. It was after the George Floyd murder, and people wanted to really, really put their focus on ways that they could be a solution to the problem and wanted to put their money where their mouth was.

00;46;05;20 - 00;46;29;13
Tara Vargas Wallace
And so, asked me, you know, if there was a local list and I had done a quick Google search and there wasn't anything for the Cape Cod area, there was one for Boston and Brockton and, Martha's Vineyard, but there wasn't one for Cape Cod. So I just started to create one. And then, after, you know, meeting with my local NAACP, you guys must know John Reed.

00;46;29;15 - 00;46;49;25
Tara Vargas Wallace
He had suggested that due to the dynamics on the Cape and they're not being, there are black owned businesses, but not, a lot of black owned businesses. So he had suggested that we, make it a list of people of color. And, and my thought on that was, you know, as long as we were amplifying marginalized groups of people, I was okay with that.

00;46;49;25 - 00;47;12;13
Tara Vargas Wallace
But, yes, absolutely. Having to do with community and bringing people together because we I think, need to support each other more as people of color. And if there are people who, you know, white people in the community who want to support us, the more the merrier. I mean, that's really we're 96% white here, so we really need that support.

00;47;12;13 - 00;47;17;11
Tara Vargas Wallace
And and it's important, especially if we want to reduce the racial wealth gap.

00;47;17;13 - 00;47;40;09
Onjalé Scott Price
Yes, absolutely. I think it was Jordan mentioned in her comments that one thing we need to do is to talk about it and to not be afraid to have these conversations. And I think maybe we could do a whole show on racism and classism, because I feel like that question, really, we could we could take off because I hadn't really thought about it in the way that you presented Rev.

00;47;40;09 - 00;48;03;16
Onjalé Scott Price
And so I think having that conversation and having this conversation and like she said, making it was not, in poor taste, so to say, to talk about the challenges that we have. You know, one thing about Falmouth, I know that used to be a tagline here that isn't Falmouth great. Like, yeah, it doesn't mean that it's perfect and there aren't ways to improve, which I think people think that those two are, you know, they're against each other.

00;48;03;16 - 00;48;14;04
Onjalé Scott Price
You can't say that things are great, but then not criticize it. And so I think the same thing, we have to be able to have these conversations and talk about these difficult topics if we want to make any change.

00;48;14;06 - 00;48;16;22
Rev. Will Mebane
That's make much great again.

00;48;16;25 - 00;48;17;04
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah.

00;48;17;05 - 00;48;23;20
Wendy Cullinan
Oh, no.

00;48;23;22 - 00;48;52;16
Rev. Will Mebane
Oh, yeah. No, I saw I did hear, I think both Bobby and, Jordan make comments about and the need to have conversations. That's why this show started. You know, this is why Debbie Rogers and and Allen and, Allen Russell over at the Abc-Tv and the channel, on which you're watching this show, you know, came to us and, and said, we need to have some conversation.

00;48;52;17 - 00;49;12;20
Rev. Will Mebane
It was also after the George Floyd Floyd murder. And, so that was a catalyst for a lot of good stuff. And, so that's why we started the show, because people don't talk about it. We don't do about it. You know, it's it's it's one of those things that it's like, you know, when you're at a cocktail party, you don't talk about what is it?

00;49;12;21 - 00;49;31;22
Rev. Will Mebane
You don't talk about religion, you're talking about don't talk about money, politics and politics, you know, and and I guess you don't talk about racism either. You know, that's just for voting. But so how to continue to try to answer the question is our people on the street started, you know, what are your thoughts about what can be done?

00;49;31;24 - 00;49;44;20
Rev. Will Mebane
Wendy, what can we do to mitigate, to eliminate, fight against racism that exist? In affordable housing or housing like it exist everywhere else?

00;49;44;22 - 00;49;54;04
Wendy Cullinan
I don't know if I have a good answer. I mean, I love our program, and I know what we do.

00;49;54;06 - 00;50;15;23
Wendy Cullinan
It's hard to try when I, when I, you know, I was talking to someone who has an apartment for rent, and he, he got like, 130 applications and two days because he has an apartment for rent on Cape Cod. Right. So he's going to pick and choose anyone he wants, and no one's monitoring it. No one's going to, you know, he's going to just pick and choose.

00;50;15;23 - 00;50;44;28
Wendy Cullinan
And if he has racism in his blood, well, he's going to choose a white person for sure. So, I don't know that that will ever be policed. I think, I think just building community like sincere community and, you know, you're, you know, you're with the church. Well, and I know, you know, what it it can start there or it can continue there, for people just to work against hate.

00;50;45;00 - 00;50;46;12
Wendy Cullinan
Right.

00;50;46;14 - 00;51;14;18
Onjalé Scott Price
I think something that Bobby said was really interesting is having more people of color or having more people of color in government and leadership positions, having people see themselves reflected in their leadership. And, so I don't think I realize how important that was until I ran for this on board. I went to go talk to the Cape Verdean Club, and I had never been there before because I don't identify as Cape Verde and I just it was a community that I hadn't.

00;51;14;22 - 00;51;36;28
Onjalé Scott Price
I spent some time talking to, but not really, and going there, and the conversation about how excited they were that I was even running. But just the idea of, oh man, if you win, could you talk to my kids? Because they would be excited to know someone in local politics who looks like them. And I guess I hadn't thought about it in that broad of a or that big of a time.

00;51;37;00 - 00;52;01;19
Onjalé Scott Price
How important that was that people see themselves reflected. I had a little bit experience. I was a big sister and Big Brothers Big Sisters until recently. Unfortunately, the pandemic kind of ended our friendship. But similarly to what Wendy was saying about the host family, wanting a a family of color to support, this young girl said to us, we've always sisters, I want a big sister who looks like me.

00;52;01;21 - 00;52;20;08
Onjalé Scott Price
And that that was pretty much all she cared about was somebody that she could look up to that looked like her. And I mean, her name also started with an O, and she had curly hair just like mine. Like we really looked like, it was it was really wonderful. What? I miss her very much, but I think that was a really good point of, like, seeing yourself reflected in these places.

00;52;20;10 - 00;52;37;20
Onjalé Scott Price
Because the zoning that we were talking about, zoning gets changed at town meeting and by and things get done at the zoning board and the planning board and who makes those decisions, people that are in those positions. Do you get in that position? You got to get elected. If you don't see anybody who looks like you, you might not think that that's a space that you'd be comfortable in.

00;52;37;20 - 00;52;58;25
Onjalé Scott Price
So maybe you don't run. So, you know, getting people in these positions to be the person that other people can see, that looks like to know that that is a possibility for me. And I think that's how we're going to make some of these changes, is getting people who can actually make the change in positions to make those changes.

00;52;58;28 - 00;53;30;08
Tara Vargas Wallace
Absolutely. I was going to totally agree. That's exactly what I was going to say. In terms of, you know, political power, and, and having that political influence and, and taking those seats, you know, I'm saying take those seats and we know up my daughter's walking in. I'm so sorry. We know we know that, policies are how, all of these, you know, inequities exist either through these harmful policies that were created so many years ago, and, and put in place.

00;53;30;08 - 00;53;50;19
Tara Vargas Wallace
And so we need people that look like us who, who, you know, who can represent us, that can absolutely make change and make waves and zoning and attend town meetings and, you know, and and I think and you're you really hit on something on de when you talked about, you know, whether or not people feel comfortable at these tables.

00;53;50;24 - 00;54;18;26
Tara Vargas Wallace
I know, you know, I've, I've definitely been at tables where I did not feel comfortable. But sitting in that uncomfortability. Uncomfortability. And, and being able to really voice, and being the conscience of, of change, making decisions and, and making sure that you're present and, and speaking up and, I think more, more of us need to do that, and we really, we really need to rally the troops on that.

00;54;18;26 - 00;54;33;15
Tara Vargas Wallace
And I know it's really hard because we don't feel comfortable in these seats and in these boardrooms and at these tables. But we've got to make a concerted effort to, to really get out there and, get people more people civically engaged and involved.

00;54;33;17 - 00;54;44;26
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah. Rev, I see you unmuted. So you probably want to say something. Would jump in real quick and say that, one of the challenges that I know is faced quite often is like, we've talked about being the only one.

00;54;44;26 - 00;55;01;25
Onjalé Scott Price
And when there's so few of us, many of us are asked, are always asked to be part of things or always asked to have a voice at the table. And so I feel like it is a a privileged burden, so to say. Like, it is a privilege to be here. It is also a burden to always be the only one.

00;55;01;25 - 00;55;20;22
Onjalé Scott Price
But if we do, I feel like if we do our job well, if we take that privilege and we say, I am going to do this as much as I can without burning myself out and dealing with my mental health, then there will be more people, and I won't always have to be the only one. And I won't be the the one person everybody calls all the time, because I'm the only one that they know.

00;55;20;26 - 00;55;27;02
Onjalé Scott Price
There will be more of us to essentially to choose from for these conversations.

00;55;27;04 - 00;55;33;16
Rev. Will Mebane
Oh Lord, how I long for that day to.

00;55;33;18 - 00;56;06;10
Rev. Will Mebane
Oh my goodness. Since 1970, when I took a trip with an organization called A Young Life. Christian Organization from Durham, North Carolina, to, Buena Vista, Colorado, with 99 students, high school students. And I was the only black person on the busses. And since 1970 until now, still, I am often the only black person in the situation.

00;56;06;10 - 00;56;31;28
Rev. Will Mebane
I am just I'm the ninth rector at Saint Barnabas and is 131 year history, ninth record. I'm the first African-American to, to hold this position. It is a privilege and a distinct honor to have it. But why take so long? You know, wasn't there somebody before me that was qualified to do it? Maybe even better than I am, you know?

00;56;31;28 - 00;56;33;26
Onjalé Scott Price
So what is better than you?

00;56;33;28 - 00;56;35;19
Wendy Cullinan
Okay.

00;56;35;22 - 00;57;01;09
Rev. Will Mebane
I love you there. Oh. But. So, yeah, we have to. The other thing that that someone said was we have to look at sort of traditional ways of getting and the word out when, you know, there's a, there's a department right for, for release or their application is being taken for a list, of one sort or another.

00;57;01;11 - 00;57;24;20
Rev. Will Mebane
You know, I always try to encourage organizations to use nontraditional approaches to reaching those communities. And you were mentioning the Cape Verdean Club reminded me of that. And you you know how many organizations think about even contacting the Cape Verdean Club to say, hey, we're looking to hire. We're looking, you know, for this, that and one thing, another.

00;57;24;23 - 00;57;49;29
Rev. Will Mebane
Want to make sure that we contact you and you maybe help us get the word around, right. But instead we use the traditional means, the traditional media and the traditional avenues to get the word out. But if you really want to, you know, reach black and brown folks, you gotta go. You know, there's no other routes to to get the message to them to get the to get the word to them.

00;57;50;02 - 00;58;18;05
Onjalé Scott Price
You got to let them know that they are actually wanted. Because so often we have not been wanted. So why why would we put in the effort? Like you didn't mean for me to see this, I just happened to see it. If you make the extra effort that lets me know that, oh, you were actually interested in having me participate in whatever this you're actually interested in having me apply for this housing opportunity because you actually want me, and not just, oh, I just happened to be at the grocery store and saw this choir and everybody else saw.

00;58;18;08 - 00;58;19;02
Rev. Will Mebane
There you go.

00;58;19;05 - 00;58;21;14
Wendy Cullinan
Now, that's a really good point.

00;58;21;17 - 00;58;28;14
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah, I see I see the tarot applauding over there. What? Tell us what's on your mind. What are you thinking?

00;58;28;16 - 00;58;48;26
Tara Vargas Wallace
I know that's that's 100% on point. I mean, we reach us, reach out to us, you know, and I think, you know, and the other. But then there's there's the other scary side to that. Not necessarily in terms of housing. But, you know, in terms of maybe sitting on a board or a committee where it's like you don't want to be the token black person or the token brown person, either.

00;58;48;26 - 00;59;08;25
Tara Vargas Wallace
You want to make sure that that this is an agency, or an organization that is really intentional on, providing and creating rather an impact. Right? And not just have I just having you there for checking a box, but when I get right, are you going to support me? Somebody says something out of pocket in the meeting.

00;59;08;25 - 00;59;32;15
Onjalé Scott Price
Am I going to have to stand up for myself if I tell you something happened behind closed doors? Are you going to believe me if I tell you I'm uncomfortable but don't want to explain it? In this open meeting, are you going to make time to talk to me later? Like those are the things that make the difference between you actually want me participating, or you just want to check a box and you want to be able to have me in your pictures and on your fliers to say, like, see, we care about the black and brown folks.

00;59;32;18 - 00;59;35;17
Onjalé Scott Price
We got one. Happens all the time.

00;59;35;20 - 00;59;36;19
Wendy Cullinan
Yeah.

00;59;36;22 - 00;59;59;15
Rev. Will Mebane
I guess it's it really does. I mean, I not to make it about me, but it is always about me. Come on you know. So when I, when I got here, you know, one of the leaders in the church came to me and said that someone had come to them and said, did you know he was colored, you know.

00;59;59;18 - 01;00;30;05
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah. Well, that's but yeah, that was such a shock to the system. You know, when I got here to see that there was an African-American who was assuming this prestigious, honorable, you know, position at, at an institution like Saint Barnabas, was just too much for for some people to take. And, and on the other hand, there were people who really wanted to have a person of color that take the leadership role here at Saint Barnabas.

01;00;30;05 - 01;00;52;11
Rev. Will Mebane
I heard that from a number of people that, no, no, no, he was specifically looking. So I'm. Yeah, but you got to go. You just can't go to go the traditional route now. And we're getting close to wrapping up and, so I'm trying to think how to ask this of you, Wendy, without putting you on the spot, but I don't know, we in a way, to do it, but to put you on the spot.

01;00;52;11 - 01;01;05;14
Rev. Will Mebane
So, I'm hoping habitat for Humanity of Cape Cod has some. Not because I'm interested or available, but some black folks on this board.

01;01;05;16 - 01;01;08;15
Wendy Cullinan
We do, our board, we do.

01;01;08;18 - 01;01;13;05
Onjalé Scott Price
I actually did look at the website earlier. I saw at least one that was obviously black to me.

01;01;13;07 - 01;01;34;14
Wendy Cullinan
Yeah. And we have a woman, who just, joined, and she's, Puerto Rican woman. And, and then we also have, the rabbi from, the, synagogue in Hyannis on our board, too. So we really do work to, you know, we have a homeowner on our board, too. So, yeah, we do we do work.

01;01;34;16 - 01;01;50;28
Wendy Cullinan
You know, we do work to hear all the voices, right? It's. But you guys have a big job to do. Your leaders in the community and people do count on you. And I look at young Angela and and you. Right. You've got a lot on your shoulders. You you know, young women are going to look up to you.

01;01;50;29 - 01;02;16;06
Wendy Cullinan
Young women of color are going to want to be you. And that's that's a it's a lot. So take your vitamins and you know, you've got you obviously have great energy and a great spirit. So I'm really honored. I will admittedly say a little nervous to come and represent, you know, here's white Wendy, you know, trying to talk about this topic, which I'm not wonderfully versed in because my focus has been, you know, narrow.

01;02;16;08 - 01;02;30;21
Wendy Cullinan
But good for me to hear all this. And I am in a leadership position in the community where I can, you know, I can bring this issue to the table and bring it forward and work to make us have a better community.

01;02;30;23 - 01;02;39;00
Rev. Will Mebane
But that's going to be my name for you from now on. When I call you, when I'm asked to speak to white Wendy, it's me.

01;02;39;02 - 01;03;02;28
Wendy Cullinan
You know, it's funny because we talk about people having, opinions or images. You know, I come from Connecticut too, so I'm also, like, wealthy white, which couldn't be more from the truth. But, you know, it's just people assume that I you've got this great college education, and I grew up with a silver spoon, and I'm the wrong, a lot of it, but I'm Wendy.

01;03;03;00 - 01;03;03;13
Onjalé Scott Price
And we're glad.

01;03;03;13 - 01;03;06;06
Wendy Cullinan
That you and white. But.

01;03;06;06 - 01;03;25;12
Tara Vargas Wallace
Yeah, I just want to I just want to add one thing about Housing Assistance Corporation, because I am here in representation of them. And, you know, they are a wonderful organization as well who really, is, is really doing the work in terms of trying to reverse systemic racism in housing and, and really trying to make, an impact.

01;03;25;12 - 01;03;35;23
Tara Vargas Wallace
And, yeah. And I'm on their board and I'm a woman of color, and they have a couple of us on there. So, just great organization, doing really great work as well.

01;03;35;26 - 01;04;00;21
Wendy Cullinan
I want to I want to echo that, I can't imagine, our community without Housing Assistance Corporation. You know, we serve a working. We serve working families, and housing assistance goes far beyond who they serve. And, it's they do great work, and I never feel it's us or them. I say we need it all. We need every organization out there that is making a difference.

01;04;00;21 - 01;04;31;22
Wendy Cullinan
That's finding housing for people. I'll always remember Rabbi David Freeland saying to me, Wendy, do you know that 40 people die? They freeze to death in the woods in Hyannis every year. People are freezing to death in beautiful little Cape Cod. We need to wake up. Right. So, yeah. So all the services, all the services are needed.

01;04;31;24 - 01;04;35;02
Wendy Cullinan
Yeah. So thank you all three for what you do.

01;04;35;04 - 01;04;53;28
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah. Thanks again. Likewise. I will say, and I meant to mention this earlier, we were talking about having these conversations that it was October of 2020. So last October, the Affordable Housing family Affordable Housing Committee hosted one of their housing summit, and I was hosting it, and we had a list of Magnotta, the CEO of Housing Persons Corp.

01;04;53;29 - 01;05;20;08
Onjalé Scott Price
Come on. And she gave Nelda a presentation about, affordable housing, but about the racism aspect to like, why affordable housing is difficult for people of color. She talked about systemic racism. You know, the detail about redlining and specifically the zoning laws that are on Cape Cod and how, I mean, we're obviously different than Boston, but how that redlining was very different but very intentional.

01;05;20;10 - 01;05;41;01
Onjalé Scott Price
And her her presentation was fantastic. I let me know that as the leader, she is having these conversations. So that's that. The rest of the team is here in these conversations, and that means people are thinking about it because, yeah, from what I see of Lisa, she she's not taking anybody's nothing. She's not. That's a bad. Yeah. Yeah.

01;05;41;01 - 01;05;42;25
Onjalé Scott Price
She's wonderful. She's wonderful.

01;05;42;27 - 01;05;48;23
Wendy Cullinan
So brilliant. She's brilliant and passionate about what she does. Absolutely is. Yeah.

01;05;48;25 - 01;06;11;11
Onjalé Scott Price
Well, I want to thank you all for joining in this conversation with us. I think this has been a really great conversation. Tara, I look forward to seeing you at likewise, I'd like to get together and chat about you and your family at some point. And yeah, we're about amplify, POC and Wendy. I look forward to seeing you on some builds for having and, it was it was wonderful to have you all here.

01;06;11;11 - 01;06;14;13
Onjalé Scott Price
I'll pass it off to Will for some closing remarks as well.

01;06;14;15 - 01;06;15;29
Wendy Cullinan
Thank you, Onjale

01;06;16;02 - 01;06;38;02
Rev. Will Mebane
And my only close remark is to say thank you, ladies. Thank you so very much. Has been a rich, discussion. I feel truly blessed to have been able to spend this time with you. And I pray, if I can say that on the television show, I pray, that you will be given the strength to continue to do the work that you are doing.

01;06;38;04 - 01;07;00;26
Rev. Will Mebane
So thank you, thank you. And we say thank you to our, viewers out there. We've missed you. We've been off the air for for a bit, taking a little break, but we are back and God willing, we'll be able to be with you every month here on Sctv, thanks to the, good work of, Deborah Rogers over at CTV and Alan Russell and the whole team there.

01;07;00;28 - 01;07;23;02
Rev. Will Mebane
My thanks, as always to, Angela Scott Price, the honorable one here in the US in Falmouth. And please continue to tune in. And if you have ideas for shows that you think we ought to do a topic, you think, we ought to have a conversation about, just let us know. All right. Until then, take care.

01;07;23;04 - 01;07;27;16
Onjalé Scott Price
Take care.

01;07;27;18 - 01;07;34;21
Onjalé Scott Price

01;07;34;23 - 01;07;35;00
Onjalé Scott Price